4 ms·

I never know what to think about reports on labour demand anymore, I have heard "there are no jobs", "there are lots of jobs", "noone is working", simultaneousl

I never know what to think about reports on labour demand anymore, I have heard "there are no jobs", "there are lots of jobs", "noone is working", simultaneously all year. I guess it all comes down to who is saying it. I guess most of the time it's the fact that the jobs are crap, but employers don't want to shift the social contract that creates the apparent contradiction, but who knows.

adam_arthur 4y ago
Job openings vs labor supply tells you most of what you need to know. Job openings exceed job seekers by a record amount. Unemployment is close to a record low.
- cs137 4y ago
  In other words, the dysfunction (unemployment) on which capitalists rely, because it scares people into taking shitty deals, is a bit less of a problem... but it's also causing other dysfunctions, because it turns out that this is a shitty system.
  - adam_arthur 4y ago
    Well, if you want uncontrolled inflation, keep advocating for policies that push unemployment below the rate of sustainable full employment. It seems to be making people happy, after all. Not like there are hundreds of years of economic history to learn from...
    - xphilter 4y ago
      Ah yes, people getting jobs is what caused inflation. Not the trillions printed and given to scammy upper classes through fraudulent PPP loans and artificially low interest rates.
      - adam_arthur 4y ago
        It's both. Do you think nominal wage gains coupled with real wage declines makes people happy? Check consumer sentiment polling which just hit an all time low, why don't you? It's funny to see society broadly reject the impact of covid era policy, yet some advocate to do more and more of it. Fed kept rates low in pursuit of unsustainably low unemployment, by the way, motivated by pressure from progressives
        plaguepilled 4y ago
        Wait, but consumer polling proves the point though? People are miserable BECAUSE their dollar buys less. The benefactors of such a policy are those with diversified assets. Wages should increase in response, not decrease. Inflation hits different sectors differently, and I'm OK with a PS5 inflating 300% if it means that a person on a minimum wage can have food security.
        adam_arthur 4y ago
        Advocating for higher wages to fight inflation is non-sensical. It just exacerbates inflation and requires even further wage gains to keep even. There is a wealth of economic history that shows this. The stimulus checks and co were the primary driver of inflation. Handing people more money is not the answer
        eli_gottlieb 4y ago
        Why should labor eat the real losses from inflation rather than capital or rentiers?
        adam_arthur 4y ago
        They shouldn't but the mistake of handing out tons of helicopter money has already been made
        sky-kedge0749 4y ago
- ellopoppit 4y ago
  Labor force participation is also at a record low
  - adam_arthur 4y ago
    Because population is aging. E.g. the Japan problem, a few decades later
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
cs137 4y ago
The jobs are crap, and the pay is low. Postdocs used to be an exception, something prestigious you did before settling into a permanent role that might be a lower-ranked university. If you were really good, you might do 2 years at IAS or MIT before taking the position at a place like UCLA or Michigan (which are still excellent, just not as highly ranked). Then it became something you had to do, before getting any job--mandatory low-wage labor, another rung on the ladder. Now, it seems to be going out of fashion, as the prize loses its appeal. I'm surprised this didn't happen 10 years ago. The academic job market has been a toilet for 30+ years--and this change is a good thing, by the way--and I had expected bimodalization to come much quicker. You're absolutely right on the "labor shortage" bullshit. There isn't one. The working class has been fully depleted and there isn't any more give. People are shutting down. Workers who can't afford gas are forced to live off other people (either through illegitimate labor or by dependency.) This is the turtle at the bottom burping. About fucking time.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  It’s academia chicken/extended dare- who is willing to grit n+1 postdocs out to show that they’re committed
  - scythe 4y ago
    https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/longevity-2 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/longevity-2
    - pdimitar 4y ago
      Made me giggle, thanks. :)
- jltsiren 4y ago
  I'm not surprised this didn't happen earlier. The pandemic disrupted everything and gave people a good reason to rethink their life choices. Industry salaries grew faster than academic salaries. Teaching became more stressful and less rewarding. Instead of being in the same place with other people with similar interests, you had to do research remotely from your tiny apartment. And because you were probably far away from home, travel restrictions often prevented you from seeing your friends and family. The academia started looking much worse, and getting a job where you can choose where you live became even more attractive.
atrettel 4y ago
My take is that statements like "there are no jobs available" and "employers cannot find enough workers" can be both true at the same time. My best guess right now is that employers want to hire a lot of low-skill workers in general (warehouses, retail, hospitality, etc.) but only want to hire high-skilled workers with a decade or more of experience, so workers "in the middle" (junior developers, engineers, and scientists) are left out to dry. I see a similar dynamic for postdocs, but with a slight difference. I believe the PIs in the article when they say that they are having trouble hiring postdocs. As a former postdoc myself, it pays poorly and has no job security. You take those jobs mostly because you like the work, and right now many people have better options available. That is part of the reason I left my postdoc, but the other part is that there are just so few research jobs in my field (postdoc or otherwise) at the moment. Some fields seem to be flush with money right now and unable to hire enough people to meet demand, while others are barely hiring at all. My field appears to be barely hiring at all. And that is why I think that statements like "there are no jobs available" and "employers cannot find enough workers" can be both true at the same time, since it really depends on the field and what kind of work is being funded at the moment.

adam_arthur 4y ago

Job openings vs labor supply tells you most of what you need to know. Job openings exceed job seekers by a record amount. Unemployment is close to a record low.

cs137 4y ago
In other words, the dysfunction (unemployment) on which capitalists rely, because it scares people into taking shitty deals, is a bit less of a problem... but it's also causing other dysfunctions, because it turns out that this is a shitty system.
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  Well, if you want uncontrolled inflation, keep advocating for policies that push unemployment below the rate of sustainable full employment. It seems to be making people happy, after all. Not like there are hundreds of years of economic history to learn from...
  - xphilter 4y ago
    Ah yes, people getting jobs is what caused inflation. Not the trillions printed and given to scammy upper classes through fraudulent PPP loans and artificially low interest rates.
    - adam_arthur 4y ago
      It's both. Do you think nominal wage gains coupled with real wage declines makes people happy? Check consumer sentiment polling which just hit an all time low, why don't you? It's funny to see society broadly reject the impact of covid era policy, yet some advocate to do more and more of it. Fed kept rates low in pursuit of unsustainably low unemployment, by the way, motivated by pressure from progressives
      - plaguepilled 4y ago
        Wait, but consumer polling proves the point though? People are miserable BECAUSE their dollar buys less. The benefactors of such a policy are those with diversified assets. Wages should increase in response, not decrease. Inflation hits different sectors differently, and I'm OK with a PS5 inflating 300% if it means that a person on a minimum wage can have food security.
        adam_arthur 4y ago
        Advocating for higher wages to fight inflation is non-sensical. It just exacerbates inflation and requires even further wage gains to keep even. There is a wealth of economic history that shows this. The stimulus checks and co were the primary driver of inflation. Handing people more money is not the answer
        eli_gottlieb 4y ago
        Why should labor eat the real losses from inflation rather than capital or rentiers?
        adam_arthur 4y ago
        They shouldn't but the mistake of handing out tons of helicopter money has already been made
        sky-kedge0749 4y ago
ellopoppit 4y ago
Labor force participation is also at a record low
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  Because population is aging. E.g. the Japan problem, a few decades later
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

cs137 4y ago

The jobs are crap, and the pay is low. Postdocs used to be an exception, something prestigious you did before settling into a permanent role that might be a lower-ranked university. If you were really good, you might do 2 years at IAS or MIT before taking the position at a place like UCLA or Michigan (which are still excellent, just not as highly ranked). Then it became something you had to do, before getting any job--mandatory low-wage labor, another rung on the ladder. Now, it seems to be going out of fashion, as the prize loses its appeal. I'm surprised this didn't happen 10 years ago. The academic job market has been a toilet for 30+ years--and this change is a good thing, by the way--and I had expected bimodalization to come much quicker. You're absolutely right on the "labor shortage" bullshit. There isn't one. The working class has been fully depleted and there isn't any more give. People are shutting down. Workers who can't afford gas are forced to live off other people (either through illegitimate labor or by dependency.) This is the turtle at the bottom burping. About fucking time.

selimthegrim 4y ago
It’s academia chicken/extended dare- who is willing to grit n+1 postdocs out to show that they’re committed
- scythe 4y ago
  https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/longevity-2 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/longevity-2
  - pdimitar 4y ago
    Made me giggle, thanks. :)
jltsiren 4y ago
I'm not surprised this didn't happen earlier. The pandemic disrupted everything and gave people a good reason to rethink their life choices. Industry salaries grew faster than academic salaries. Teaching became more stressful and less rewarding. Instead of being in the same place with other people with similar interests, you had to do research remotely from your tiny apartment. And because you were probably far away from home, travel restrictions often prevented you from seeing your friends and family. The academia started looking much worse, and getting a job where you can choose where you live became even more attractive.

atrettel 4y ago

My take is that statements like "there are no jobs available" and "employers cannot find enough workers" can be both true at the same time. My best guess right now is that employers want to hire a lot of low-skill workers in general (warehouses, retail, hospitality, etc.) but only want to hire high-skilled workers with a decade or more of experience, so workers "in the middle" (junior developers, engineers, and scientists) are left out to dry. I see a similar dynamic for postdocs, but with a slight difference. I believe the PIs in the article when they say that they are having trouble hiring postdocs. As a former postdoc myself, it pays poorly and has no job security. You take those jobs mostly because you like the work, and right now many people have better options available. That is part of the reason I left my postdoc, but the other part is that there are just so few research jobs in my field (postdoc or otherwise) at the moment. Some fields seem to be flush with money right now and unable to hire enough people to meet demand, while others are barely hiring at all. My field appears to be barely hiring at all. And that is why I think that statements like "there are no jobs available" and "employers cannot find enough workers" can be both true at the same time, since it really depends on the field and what kind of work is being funded at the moment.