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And if doctors are worried, the first step should be doing actual tests to see if people are experiencing pain. Not making some judgement based on their cynical

And if doctors are worried, the first step should be doing actual tests to see if people are experiencing pain. Not making some judgement based on their cynical bias whether someone is lying or being truthful. It is amazing how much of the medical community states they believe in science, yet they seem entirely disconnected from it at times.

vkou 4y ago
How can you, with an objective test, determine whether or not I am experiencing chronic pain, or if I'm just pretending to be experiencing chronic pain?
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  Brain imaging would be a good example, but there is cortisol screenings among several other tests that can help determine that someone is actually in pain.
  - vkou 4y ago
    I could be wrong, but don't people with long-term chronic pain have normal cortisol levels?
    - encryptluks2 4y ago
      I'm sure they can, but it can be a very indicator as well: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4263906/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4263906/ https://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/pain/cortisol-screening-chronic-pain-patients https://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/pain/cortisol-screen...
tsimionescu 4y ago
Sure, just like instead of prescribing anti-depressants, we should first do a depression test. Unfortunately, neuroscience is not at a level where we can actually perform these tests. There is no objective measure to see if someone is in pain, or depressed, or suffering many other psychological symptoms.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  Actually, there are tests now for depression. And yes, you can do objective tests like brain imaging to see people's responses to stimuli among other things. What should not happen is for doctors to meet someone for 20 minutes, do nothing but talk to the person and say.. oh, I don't trust them they must be lying. Except, that is what doctors do all the time and there is no scientific basis for their decisions.
  - frumper 4y ago
    Sounds expensive, wouldn't it just be easier to trust them? I think the bigger problem is if a doctor doesn't know what's wrong or how to fix it, then they disengage.
    - encryptluks2 4y ago
      Yes it is easier to trust the patient, but unfortunately many medical professionals have implicit bias and don't.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    Can you point to some tests for depression? A quick Google only turned out some studies, nothing approved and usable in clinical settings (and one of the studies had a test that couldnt differentiate between depression and bipolar disorder). Similarly, brain imaging for pain is at the research level, and may come with several other risks. I doubt there are such tests that could be used to conclusively prove that someone is or is not in pain.
    - encryptluks2 4y ago
      One that I can think of, but I think it may be more "early access": https://mindxsciences.com/ https://mindxsciences.com/ There are blood and urine tests for seratonin, but studies are mixed on how reliable they are. Since depression can also be accompanied by other factors though, there is a wide range of tests that can help provide objective evidence.

vkou 4y ago

How can you, with an objective test, determine whether or not I am experiencing chronic pain, or if I'm just pretending to be experiencing chronic pain?

encryptluks2 4y ago
Brain imaging would be a good example, but there is cortisol screenings among several other tests that can help determine that someone is actually in pain.
- vkou 4y ago
  I could be wrong, but don't people with long-term chronic pain have normal cortisol levels?
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    I'm sure they can, but it can be a very indicator as well: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4263906/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4263906/ https://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/pain/cortisol-screening-chronic-pain-patients https://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/pain/cortisol-screen...

tsimionescu 4y ago

Sure, just like instead of prescribing anti-depressants, we should first do a depression test. Unfortunately, neuroscience is not at a level where we can actually perform these tests. There is no objective measure to see if someone is in pain, or depressed, or suffering many other psychological symptoms.

encryptluks2 4y ago
Actually, there are tests now for depression. And yes, you can do objective tests like brain imaging to see people's responses to stimuli among other things. What should not happen is for doctors to meet someone for 20 minutes, do nothing but talk to the person and say.. oh, I don't trust them they must be lying. Except, that is what doctors do all the time and there is no scientific basis for their decisions.
- frumper 4y ago
  Sounds expensive, wouldn't it just be easier to trust them? I think the bigger problem is if a doctor doesn't know what's wrong or how to fix it, then they disengage.
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    Yes it is easier to trust the patient, but unfortunately many medical professionals have implicit bias and don't.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  Can you point to some tests for depression? A quick Google only turned out some studies, nothing approved and usable in clinical settings (and one of the studies had a test that couldnt differentiate between depression and bipolar disorder). Similarly, brain imaging for pain is at the research level, and may come with several other risks. I doubt there are such tests that could be used to conclusively prove that someone is or is not in pain.
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    One that I can think of, but I think it may be more "early access": https://mindxsciences.com/ https://mindxsciences.com/ There are blood and urine tests for seratonin, but studies are mixed on how reliable they are. Since depression can also be accompanied by other factors though, there is a wide range of tests that can help provide objective evidence.