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I agree with that. You can see this in Ontario COVID statistics. People that did not take the vaccine, despite all the pressure, tend to be healthier as popula

I agree with that. You can see this in Ontario COVID statistics. People that did not take the vaccine, despite all the pressure, tend to be healthier as population. They kind of self selected by being self confident in their health and not worrying about dying from COVID. The triple vaccinated in Ontario are now the highest risk of getting COVID. They too self selected, by tending to be older with pre existing health problems, and worried enough to get boosters. https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data?fbclid=1 https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data?fbclid=1

ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
does that include the people who died after not taking the vaccine? asking because you only linked to the homepage of a general data portal which itself reports its no longer being updated, versus to a study supporting what you're saying
- dukeofdoom 4y ago
  Last update was June 10. So it's still pretty recent. Ontario did not release data on death rates to the public. I don't know why. I briefly read on twitter that UK is showing startling differences now, with the vaccinated having a much higher all cause mortality rate. If true, I don't know if its this effect at play or if some of the conspiracy theories were right.
  - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
    just reiterating in case you missed it, regardless of when it was last updated: you actually only linked to the homepage of a general data portal (not even a specific data set), versus to a study supporting what you're saying I have to imagine this is a mistake in getting the specific URL you were actually looking at
ramraj07 4y ago
You are right that people who take vaccines and who do not probably bifurcate along other lines as well. But you’re doing everything even more of a disservice by speculating the dimensions as if it’s established fact. Maybe the unvaccinated aren’t healthier they’re just liars? Also any self respecting study would control for the simple demographics like age so your hypothesis would be quite moot if the study was done with any rigor.
- dukeofdoom 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - TaupeRanger 4y ago
    It was literally never claimed that it was 97% effective at stopping COVID. The Pfizer vaccine was 97% effective at preventing severe disease after two doses in early 2021. Don't bring conspiracy nonsense into every discussion about healthcare.
    - bananapear 4y ago
      https://twitter.com/albertbourla/status/1377618481923944462 https://twitter.com/albertbourla/status/1377618481923944462
    - dukeofdoom 4y ago
      Here is the claim from pfizer's own press release. "Vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% against symptomatic COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, severe and critical hospitalizations, and deaths. Furthermore, the analysis found a vaccine effectiveness of 94% against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections. " https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/real-world-evidence-confirms-high-effectiveness-pfizer#:~:text=Vaccine%20effectiveness%20was%20at%20least%2097%25%20against%20symptomatic%20COVID%2D19,SARS%2DCoV%2D2%20infections https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta....
      - hedgehog 4y ago
        That's 94%, and it was true vs the original strain immediately after vaccination. Now many people are six months or more past their last shot and the current virus is two years of evolution improved vs the original. Vaccination reduces personal risk significantly but it's not going to control spread by itself.
      - TaupeRanger 4y ago
        You just proved yourself wrong? What do you think this says? It literally never claims to be 97% effective at (your words) stopping COVID. That implies that it prevents the infection from spreading and/or causing symptoms, neither of which is part of that statement in the press release.
triceratops 4y ago
> The triple vaccinated in Ontario are now the highest risk of getting COVID I don't understand how the source you shared supports this claim*. If anything, it shows the opposite - you're at far higher risk of death if you're unvaccinated. And that's after considering the fact that unvaccinated people are likely to be younger and fitter. The unvaccinated have, at best, half as many deaths per 100k as those who are fully vaccinated + booster (in reality, the two lines mostly track each other). Which sounds good, until you realize that the unvaccinated make up only 9% of the population. 33% of the deaths coming from 9% of the population - healthier, they are not. Delusional, would be more correct. * I'm assuming "getting COVID" here means "having serious consequences from an infection" as opposed to merely being infected. The vaccinated make up the vast majority of the population, so it's obvious that they are also at the highest risk of being infected by COVID. There are very few unvaccinated people left for the virus to infect.
- dukeofdoom 4y ago
  The numbers have already been adjusted. So what you're seeing is the rate of covid cases per 100k people in each group. 3rd graph from the top. You're trying to adjust the numbers twice for the unvaccinated. If you don't believe me, here is a second set of data from Walgreens. Look at the third page. https://www.walgreens.com/businesssolutions/covid-19-index.jsp https://www.walgreens.com/businesssolutions/covid-19-index.j... The Ontario page does not show the death rate.
  - joyeuse6701 4y ago
    The Ontario page shows a graph comparing death rates for various states of vaccination search for "Deaths involving COVID-19 by vaccination status".
  - triceratops 4y ago
    > The numbers have already been adjusted Thanks for the correction. > The Ontario page does not show the death rate. Doesn't it? I see a graph titled "Deaths involving COVID-19 by vaccination status". And that still shows higher deaths/100k in the "Not fully vaccinated" group for every given adult age range: 18-39, 40-59, and 60+ (look at the All time data). > here is a second set of data from Walgreens. Look at the third page. That shows the positivity rate. I'm not talking about the positivity rate. We're beyond that now. Everyone will get Covid someday. The vaccine protects you from dying or having serious health issues. There's no vaccine, for any disease, that can prevent you from contracting the disease. That would require vaccines to create force fields around your body, which are science fiction. In the case of the most efficacious vaccines, your immune system will be so well-prepared that your body will fight off the infection without you ever getting any symptoms.

ImPostingOnHN 4y ago

does that include the people who died after not taking the vaccine? asking because you only linked to the homepage of a general data portal which itself reports its no longer being updated, versus to a study supporting what you're saying

dukeofdoom 4y ago
Last update was June 10. So it's still pretty recent. Ontario did not release data on death rates to the public. I don't know why. I briefly read on twitter that UK is showing startling differences now, with the vaccinated having a much higher all cause mortality rate. If true, I don't know if its this effect at play or if some of the conspiracy theories were right.
- ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
  just reiterating in case you missed it, regardless of when it was last updated: you actually only linked to the homepage of a general data portal (not even a specific data set), versus to a study supporting what you're saying I have to imagine this is a mistake in getting the specific URL you were actually looking at

ramraj07 4y ago

You are right that people who take vaccines and who do not probably bifurcate along other lines as well. But you’re doing everything even more of a disservice by speculating the dimensions as if it’s established fact. Maybe the unvaccinated aren’t healthier they’re just liars? Also any self respecting study would control for the simple demographics like age so your hypothesis would be quite moot if the study was done with any rigor.

dukeofdoom 4y ago
[flagged]
- TaupeRanger 4y ago
  It was literally never claimed that it was 97% effective at stopping COVID. The Pfizer vaccine was 97% effective at preventing severe disease after two doses in early 2021. Don't bring conspiracy nonsense into every discussion about healthcare.
  - bananapear 4y ago
    https://twitter.com/albertbourla/status/1377618481923944462 https://twitter.com/albertbourla/status/1377618481923944462
  - dukeofdoom 4y ago
    Here is the claim from pfizer's own press release. "Vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% against symptomatic COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, severe and critical hospitalizations, and deaths. Furthermore, the analysis found a vaccine effectiveness of 94% against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections. " https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/real-world-evidence-confirms-high-effectiveness-pfizer#:~:text=Vaccine%20effectiveness%20was%20at%20least%2097%25%20against%20symptomatic%20COVID%2D19,SARS%2DCoV%2D2%20infections https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta....
    - hedgehog 4y ago
      That's 94%, and it was true vs the original strain immediately after vaccination. Now many people are six months or more past their last shot and the current virus is two years of evolution improved vs the original. Vaccination reduces personal risk significantly but it's not going to control spread by itself.
    - TaupeRanger 4y ago
      You just proved yourself wrong? What do you think this says? It literally never claims to be 97% effective at (your words) stopping COVID. That implies that it prevents the infection from spreading and/or causing symptoms, neither of which is part of that statement in the press release.

triceratops 4y ago

> The triple vaccinated in Ontario are now the highest risk of getting COVID I don't understand how the source you shared supports this claim*. If anything, it shows the opposite - you're at far higher risk of death if you're unvaccinated. And that's after considering the fact that unvaccinated people are likely to be younger and fitter. The unvaccinated have, at best, half as many deaths per 100k as those who are fully vaccinated + booster (in reality, the two lines mostly track each other). Which sounds good, until you realize that the unvaccinated make up only 9% of the population. 33% of the deaths coming from 9% of the population - healthier, they are not. Delusional, would be more correct. * I'm assuming "getting COVID" here means "having serious consequences from an infection" as opposed to merely being infected. The vaccinated make up the vast majority of the population, so it's obvious that they are also at the highest risk of being infected by COVID. There are very few unvaccinated people left for the virus to infect.

dukeofdoom 4y ago
The numbers have already been adjusted. So what you're seeing is the rate of covid cases per 100k people in each group. 3rd graph from the top. You're trying to adjust the numbers twice for the unvaccinated. If you don't believe me, here is a second set of data from Walgreens. Look at the third page. https://www.walgreens.com/businesssolutions/covid-19-index.jsp https://www.walgreens.com/businesssolutions/covid-19-index.j... The Ontario page does not show the death rate.
- joyeuse6701 4y ago
  The Ontario page shows a graph comparing death rates for various states of vaccination search for "Deaths involving COVID-19 by vaccination status".
- triceratops 4y ago
  > The numbers have already been adjusted Thanks for the correction. > The Ontario page does not show the death rate. Doesn't it? I see a graph titled "Deaths involving COVID-19 by vaccination status". And that still shows higher deaths/100k in the "Not fully vaccinated" group for every given adult age range: 18-39, 40-59, and 60+ (look at the All time data). > here is a second set of data from Walgreens. Look at the third page. That shows the positivity rate. I'm not talking about the positivity rate. We're beyond that now. Everyone will get Covid someday. The vaccine protects you from dying or having serious health issues. There's no vaccine, for any disease, that can prevent you from contracting the disease. That would require vaccines to create force fields around your body, which are science fiction. In the case of the most efficacious vaccines, your immune system will be so well-prepared that your body will fight off the infection without you ever getting any symptoms.