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> The 1999 apartment bombings in Russia attributed to Khattab (among others) were most likely a false flag operation undertaken by the Russian state security se

> The 1999 apartment bombings in Russia attributed to Khattab (among others) were most likely a false flag operation undertaken by the Russian state security service, under orders from Vladimir Putin. right, and in line with this level of evidence and argumentation, 9-11 in the US was presumably organised and conducted by a joint operation between the Pentagon and FBI.

jacobolus 4y ago
“This level of evidence” is pretty significant, though the Russian government did a thorough enough cover-up that it’s hard to meet a strict burden of proof from publicly available information. Unless secret documents are someday published, the public will probably never see a convincing conclusion about what happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Russian_government_involvement_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Rus... https://www.gq.com/story/moscow-bombings-mikhail-trepashkin-and-putin https://www.gq.com/story/moscow-bombings-mikhail-trepashkin-... > 9-11 in the US was presumably organised and conducted by a joint operation between the Pentagon and FBI This is not very plausible given the extensive available evidence about the plane hijackers and their biographies. More plausible (though still unproven) is speculation about the role of Saudi elite. Zacarias Moussaoui claimed in a deposition that major donors to Al Qaeda included “Prince Turki al-Faisal, then the Saudi intelligence chief; Prince Bandar Bin Sultan, the longtime Saudi ambassador to the United States; Prince al-Waleed bin Talal, a prominent billionaire investor; and many of the country’s leading clerics.” (quotation from NYT) Of course, while he had the access to know about what happened, Moussaoui is not the most credible source. In the US where free speech is protected, those who made various claims and conspiracy theories about the September 11 attacks (Bush did it! Israel did it! The CIA did it! etc.) didn’t get locked up or murdered, unlike the people investigating or raising questions about the Russian apartment bombings. For instance, Artyom Borovik, Anna Politkovskaya, and Alexander Litvinenko, all of whom were assassinated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artyom_Borovik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artyom_Borovik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko
- ghostwriter 4y ago
  > In the US where free speech is protected, those who made various claims and conspiracy theories about the September 11 attacks (Bush did it! Israel did it! The CIA did it! etc.) didn’t get locked up or murdered Only, for some reason the free speech protection did not help Assange from being prosecuted and his life being destroyed for broadcasting US war crimes evidence in Iraq [1]. The same could be said about your prior mentioning of the Battle of Grozny. There were real terrorist groups in Grozny that had to be eliminated, and in a 2007 Baghdad there was nothing but a false pretence. [1] the infamous US taxpayer-funded "keep shooting" "collateral damage" done in Iraq: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTxuW2vmzk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTxuW2vmzk
  - jacobolus 4y ago
    Assange was arguably mistreated by US law enforcement, but he never went on trial for the crimes he was accused of because he instead fled (to spend years on the run as a pathetic Putin stooge and apologist). If he ever is successfully extradited to the USA, he will be afforded the same protections of the law as any other accused person. He will face a trial by jury, and have access to an attorney. The prosecutors will need to prove to the jury that he committed a specific crime. But he won’t be assassinated, summarily executed, or imprisoned without trial, as regularly happens to government critics in Russia.
    - trasz 4y ago
      You are ignoring the existence of secret FISA kangaroo courts.
      - jacobolus 4y ago
        I think they have serious problems, but FISA courts oversee warrants for wiretapping foreign spies, not extrajudicial murder of dissidents.

jacobolus 4y ago

“This level of evidence” is pretty significant, though the Russian government did a thorough enough cover-up that it’s hard to meet a strict burden of proof from publicly available information. Unless secret documents are someday published, the public will probably never see a convincing conclusion about what happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Russian_government_involvement_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Rus... https://www.gq.com/story/moscow-bombings-mikhail-trepashkin-and-putin https://www.gq.com/story/moscow-bombings-mikhail-trepashkin-... > 9-11 in the US was presumably organised and conducted by a joint operation between the Pentagon and FBI This is not very plausible given the extensive available evidence about the plane hijackers and their biographies. More plausible (though still unproven) is speculation about the role of Saudi elite. Zacarias Moussaoui claimed in a deposition that major donors to Al Qaeda included “Prince Turki al-Faisal, then the Saudi intelligence chief; Prince Bandar Bin Sultan, the longtime Saudi ambassador to the United States; Prince al-Waleed bin Talal, a prominent billionaire investor; and many of the country’s leading clerics.” (quotation from NYT) Of course, while he had the access to know about what happened, Moussaoui is not the most credible source. In the US where free speech is protected, those who made various claims and conspiracy theories about the September 11 attacks (Bush did it! Israel did it! The CIA did it! etc.) didn’t get locked up or murdered, unlike the people investigating or raising questions about the Russian apartment bombings. For instance, Artyom Borovik, Anna Politkovskaya, and Alexander Litvinenko, all of whom were assassinated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artyom_Borovik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artyom_Borovik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko

ghostwriter 4y ago
> In the US where free speech is protected, those who made various claims and conspiracy theories about the September 11 attacks (Bush did it! Israel did it! The CIA did it! etc.) didn’t get locked up or murdered Only, for some reason the free speech protection did not help Assange from being prosecuted and his life being destroyed for broadcasting US war crimes evidence in Iraq [1]. The same could be said about your prior mentioning of the Battle of Grozny. There were real terrorist groups in Grozny that had to be eliminated, and in a 2007 Baghdad there was nothing but a false pretence. [1] the infamous US taxpayer-funded "keep shooting" "collateral damage" done in Iraq: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTxuW2vmzk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTxuW2vmzk
- jacobolus 4y ago
  Assange was arguably mistreated by US law enforcement, but he never went on trial for the crimes he was accused of because he instead fled (to spend years on the run as a pathetic Putin stooge and apologist). If he ever is successfully extradited to the USA, he will be afforded the same protections of the law as any other accused person. He will face a trial by jury, and have access to an attorney. The prosecutors will need to prove to the jury that he committed a specific crime. But he won’t be assassinated, summarily executed, or imprisoned without trial, as regularly happens to government critics in Russia.
  - trasz 4y ago
    You are ignoring the existence of secret FISA kangaroo courts.
    - jacobolus 4y ago
      I think they have serious problems, but FISA courts oversee warrants for wiretapping foreign spies, not extrajudicial murder of dissidents.