3 ms·

It is not weird. He is the world's biggest grifter. Precisely, a great deal more of what he says is a lie than is true, and he has profited more from his grift

by ncmncm 4y ago

It is not weird. He is the world's biggest grifter. Precisely, a great deal more of what he says is a lie than is true, and he has profited more from his grift than anybody except (maybe!) Putin. Pedo Guy. Hyperloop. Full Self-driving. Electric truck-tractor. Cybertruck. Sub-orbital passenger service. Sub-orbital freight. One-day turnaround. Mars Colonization. (To be clear: Starship, even 1000 of them, is totally inadequate to colonize Mars, and barely enough, maybe, to maintain an outpost. And it takes 9, not 6 months to get there. And one ship could take 17, at most, not 100 people.)

hinkley 4y ago
I used to work with an ex paypal employee who carried around a block of salt for Elon Musk. I never did get the full story. You could see the hate-lines coming off of the guy any time you accidentally mentioned the two in the same sentence. On the Starship front, I don't doubt that he's moved the needle, but I think people are also glossing over that whole, "Send up multiple ships, have them all transfer fuel to another ship in zero G" bit. It's presented as a 2:1 thing but does the math work out for that, or is it three ships combining fuel into a single vessel?
- ncmncm 4y ago
  More than 3. I am seeing 10.
dvt 4y ago
> He is the world's biggest grifter I mean, this is a bit dramatic, don't you think? Or do you not know who Jordan Belfort and Bernie Madoff are? Apart from annoyingly trolling Twitter, I don't really think Musk's really done anything that terrible. Just seems like weird and reactionary "rich guy = bad" groupthink. I remember when everyone hated Bill Gates, but I guess now he's a humanitarian so it's totally cool.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Bill Gates, Bernie Madoff, and Jordan Belfort are smaller grifters, the latter two much smaller. (Gates, additionally, was tight with Jeffrey Epstein for decades, also a much smaller grifter.) Rich does not mean bad. Grift is bad. I think there is a difference. Or do you mean that nobody can be that rich without being a grifter? That might be true, but I don't think of Warren Buffet as one. Or even Jeff Bezos.
  - dvt 4y ago
    How did Bill Gates grift anyone? I think you have some sort of moral chip on your shoulder. People aren't perfect, and I don't know enough about Bezos or Buffet, but I'm sure they've done some shady things in their past. But the reactionary response is just very odd. I'm too busy, worried about my own life, plans, goals, etc. to so vehemently hate some random billionaire who doesn't even know I exist. If it was personal, I'd understand, but it just seems to be part of a certain zeitgeist to hate on the guy, and everyone does it without question.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      Missing the point. I don't hate Musk. (Anybody who does probably was fired during one of his tantrums.) I do recognize him as a grifter, for reasons. Can you understand the difference? This isn't the place to explain Gates's failings, or Putin's; that's easy to look up. I don't think you are using that word "reactionary" in any meaningful way. Have you ever looked it up?
memish 4y ago
Of all the people to call a grifter you choose the one who's doing the most to solve climate change, pushing forward EVs and space, is employing thousands of great engineers and inspiring new generations of engineers? Get a grip.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Musk is doing very, very far from the most to solve climate change. He puts batteries in pathologically unreliable self-crashing cars. And burns thousands of tons of kerosene or natural gas in each rocket.
  - dvt 4y ago
    > puts batteries in pathologically unreliable self-crashing cars I don't even own a Tesla or Tesla stock, and I can tell that you've got some serious issues going on. Calling Tesla cars "self-crashing" and "unreliable" is just flat out lying[1]. This website is not a Twitter echo-chamber, and it's certainly not your personal soapbox. People are going to call you out. Get a grip, indeed. [1] https://electrek.co/2021/12/21/tesla-model-y-achieves-highest-possible-iihs-safety-rating/ https://electrek.co/2021/12/21/tesla-model-y-achieves-highes...
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      Consumer reports identified Tesla's as the least reliable American car.
      - dvt 4y ago
        > Consumer reports identified Tesla's as the least reliable American car. Going from "self-crashing cars" (which is a really serious allegation) to "cars that break down" (citing consumer reports of all sources); you keep moving the goalpost and are clearly not debating in good faith. Good luck out there.
        ncmncm 4y ago

by ncmncm 4y ago

hinkley 4y ago

I used to work with an ex paypal employee who carried around a block of salt for Elon Musk. I never did get the full story. You could see the hate-lines coming off of the guy any time you accidentally mentioned the two in the same sentence. On the Starship front, I don't doubt that he's moved the needle, but I think people are also glossing over that whole, "Send up multiple ships, have them all transfer fuel to another ship in zero G" bit. It's presented as a 2:1 thing but does the math work out for that, or is it three ships combining fuel into a single vessel?

ncmncm 4y ago
More than 3. I am seeing 10.

dvt 4y ago

> He is the world's biggest grifter I mean, this is a bit dramatic, don't you think? Or do you not know who Jordan Belfort and Bernie Madoff are? Apart from annoyingly trolling Twitter, I don't really think Musk's really done anything that terrible. Just seems like weird and reactionary "rich guy = bad" groupthink. I remember when everyone hated Bill Gates, but I guess now he's a humanitarian so it's totally cool.

ncmncm 4y ago
Bill Gates, Bernie Madoff, and Jordan Belfort are smaller grifters, the latter two much smaller. (Gates, additionally, was tight with Jeffrey Epstein for decades, also a much smaller grifter.) Rich does not mean bad. Grift is bad. I think there is a difference. Or do you mean that nobody can be that rich without being a grifter? That might be true, but I don't think of Warren Buffet as one. Or even Jeff Bezos.
- dvt 4y ago
  How did Bill Gates grift anyone? I think you have some sort of moral chip on your shoulder. People aren't perfect, and I don't know enough about Bezos or Buffet, but I'm sure they've done some shady things in their past. But the reactionary response is just very odd. I'm too busy, worried about my own life, plans, goals, etc. to so vehemently hate some random billionaire who doesn't even know I exist. If it was personal, I'd understand, but it just seems to be part of a certain zeitgeist to hate on the guy, and everyone does it without question.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    Missing the point. I don't hate Musk. (Anybody who does probably was fired during one of his tantrums.) I do recognize him as a grifter, for reasons. Can you understand the difference? This isn't the place to explain Gates's failings, or Putin's; that's easy to look up. I don't think you are using that word "reactionary" in any meaningful way. Have you ever looked it up?

memish 4y ago

Of all the people to call a grifter you choose the one who's doing the most to solve climate change, pushing forward EVs and space, is employing thousands of great engineers and inspiring new generations of engineers? Get a grip.

ncmncm 4y ago
Musk is doing very, very far from the most to solve climate change. He puts batteries in pathologically unreliable self-crashing cars. And burns thousands of tons of kerosene or natural gas in each rocket.
- dvt 4y ago
  > puts batteries in pathologically unreliable self-crashing cars I don't even own a Tesla or Tesla stock, and I can tell that you've got some serious issues going on. Calling Tesla cars "self-crashing" and "unreliable" is just flat out lying[1]. This website is not a Twitter echo-chamber, and it's certainly not your personal soapbox. People are going to call you out. Get a grip, indeed. [1] https://electrek.co/2021/12/21/tesla-model-y-achieves-highest-possible-iihs-safety-rating/ https://electrek.co/2021/12/21/tesla-model-y-achieves-highes...
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    Consumer reports identified Tesla's as the least reliable American car.
    - dvt 4y ago
      > Consumer reports identified Tesla's as the least reliable American car. Going from "self-crashing cars" (which is a really serious allegation) to "cars that break down" (citing consumer reports of all sources); you keep moving the goalpost and are clearly not debating in good faith. Good luck out there.
      - ncmncm 4y ago