4 ms·

Why don't you just tell me why you think the Mac is safer despite empirical evidence the says otherwise? That'd probably be quicker than me trying to explain t

by WayneDB 15y ago

Why don't you just tell me why you think the Mac is safer despite empirical evidence the says otherwise? That'd probably be quicker than me trying to explain to you why the Mac is worthless target. (Actually a no explanation is typically needed for that since the market share numbers don't lie. I just think you're being extremely obstinate at this point, so there's no way you'll see that. You might as well attempt to prove _your_ point to me since there's obviously no way you'll accept _my_ point.)

Samuel_Michon 15y ago
"Why don't you just tell me why you think the Mac is safer" I'll let Pwn2Own winner Charlie Miller answer that for me: "I'd say that Macs are less secure [...] but are more safe because there simply isn't much malware out there. For now, I'd still recommend Macs for typical users as the odds of something targeting them are so low that they might go years without seeing any malware, even though if an attacker cared to target them it would be easier for them." http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pwn2own-mac-hack,2254-6.html http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pwn2own-mac-hack,2254-6....
- WayneDB 15y ago
  Thanks for proving my point. It's not _technically_ safer. It's security by obscurity.
  - Samuel_Michon 15y ago
    A 58 million Mac installed base, more than 250 million iOS devices sold, and you're still arguing obscurity? That's commitment. http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/04/250-million-ios-devices-sold/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/04/250-million-ios-devices-sol...
    - WayneDB 15y ago
      Oh please. Compared to over a billion PCs worldwide? If you are going to build a bot-net, would you really target the Mac? Gimme a break dude. Considering the vast difference between Windows and OS X APIs; it's quite clear why mal-programmers don't waste their time with OS X. You would have to spend MORE than half your time attacking the Mac for less than 10% of your total attack surface. The only other argument that has been made in the face of this fact is from Gruber who said: If Macs have 10% of the market, why don't they have 10% of the viruses? That's like saying because I am Nth the size of the sun, I should have Nth the power of the sun. Reality does not work that way. Everything does not have to be proportional and in this case it's crystal clear why it is not proportional. Would you please kindly concede this point now?
      - Samuel_Michon 15y ago
        So by that logic, as long as the Mac market share isn't as high as Windows market share, the Mac platform will always be safer.
        WayneDB 15y ago
        Yes. Superficial, non-technical safety via obscurity which lasts forever since OS X will never break 10% worldwide usage market share. iOS might be another story, but smartphone and tablet usage in general is still dwarfed by Windows usage. Despite that, within the realm of smartphones there have been more iOS threats than there have been threats for Windows Phone 7. Shocker? Nope. It's based on popularity. Interestingly enough, this year's Pwn2Own left the Android and Windows Phone 7 devices undefeated while the iPhone was one of the first to fall. - http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/03/hacking-android-windows-phone/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/03/hacking-android-windo... Take from that what you will. Ciao.

by WayneDB 15y ago

Samuel_Michon 15y ago

"Why don't you just tell me why you think the Mac is safer" I'll let Pwn2Own winner Charlie Miller answer that for me: "I'd say that Macs are less secure [...] but are more safe because there simply isn't much malware out there. For now, I'd still recommend Macs for typical users as the odds of something targeting them are so low that they might go years without seeing any malware, even though if an attacker cared to target them it would be easier for them." http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pwn2own-mac-hack,2254-6.html http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pwn2own-mac-hack,2254-6....

WayneDB 15y ago
Thanks for proving my point. It's not _technically_ safer. It's security by obscurity.
- Samuel_Michon 15y ago
  A 58 million Mac installed base, more than 250 million iOS devices sold, and you're still arguing obscurity? That's commitment. http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/04/250-million-ios-devices-sold/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/04/250-million-ios-devices-sol...
  - WayneDB 15y ago
    Oh please. Compared to over a billion PCs worldwide? If you are going to build a bot-net, would you really target the Mac? Gimme a break dude. Considering the vast difference between Windows and OS X APIs; it's quite clear why mal-programmers don't waste their time with OS X. You would have to spend MORE than half your time attacking the Mac for less than 10% of your total attack surface. The only other argument that has been made in the face of this fact is from Gruber who said: If Macs have 10% of the market, why don't they have 10% of the viruses? That's like saying because I am Nth the size of the sun, I should have Nth the power of the sun. Reality does not work that way. Everything does not have to be proportional and in this case it's crystal clear why it is not proportional. Would you please kindly concede this point now?
    - Samuel_Michon 15y ago
      So by that logic, as long as the Mac market share isn't as high as Windows market share, the Mac platform will always be safer.
      - WayneDB 15y ago
        Yes. Superficial, non-technical safety via obscurity which lasts forever since OS X will never break 10% worldwide usage market share. iOS might be another story, but smartphone and tablet usage in general is still dwarfed by Windows usage. Despite that, within the realm of smartphones there have been more iOS threats than there have been threats for Windows Phone 7. Shocker? Nope. It's based on popularity. Interestingly enough, this year's Pwn2Own left the Android and Windows Phone 7 devices undefeated while the iPhone was one of the first to fall. - http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/03/hacking-android-windows-phone/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/03/hacking-android-windo... Take from that what you will. Ciao.