4 ms·

Bellingham is pure propaganda

by djbebs 4y ago

Fatnino 4y ago
Bellingcat. Why do you say that? Their analysis of the Beirut fertilizer explosion was spot on. And their work on MH17 was very good too. Of course that pointed a finger at the Russians who were claiming not to be operating in Ukraine at the time so maybe I actually see why some would prefer to baselessly brush away the whole site as "propaganda". Takes one to know one.
- 99_00 4y ago
  Saying it's pure propaganda is obviously false and you are right to counter that. They aren't a neutral observer who is simply interested in facts and truth. They have an agenda and are not transparent about it.
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    I remember a fake FUD "anonymous letter from FSB officer" which surfaced on HN in early March, for which Bellingcat was quick to issue a "seems legit". Needless to say, in a week most sources deleted the letter as its non-authenticity became too apparent. So basically, they're reposting/legitimizing war propaganda.
  - hndamien 4y ago
    Seems like they tell the truth, but not the whole truth, just the CIA truth. But at least it appears to be true.
    - 99_00 4y ago
      There are countless ways to mislead without technically being false. One way is to intentionally be ignorant of the facts and give an uniformed opinion that fits your agenda. Take the letter from the 51 former senior intelligence officers who cast doubt on the Hunter Biden laptop. https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-4393-d7aa-af77-579f9b330000 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-4393-d7aa-af77-579f9... "We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal aSorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement -" Reading the letter, you see that they don't say that the laptop is misinformation, or that the emails are fake. Only that, without attempting to verify the evidence available, they suspect it is fake because it is Russia's MO. Why would people who make their career from verifying intelligence evidence not look at the actual evidence? Not attempt to verify before assessing it. So they don't have to lie about it.
      - hndamien 4y ago
        Great point! It’s great to be aware of this, and I would argue that it is still better than a lie, you just have to know you are observing a black hole (seeing something due to the effects around it)
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  > Their analysis of the Beirut fertilizer explosion was spot on. The modelling and presentation (seemingly done in Blender?) was very impressive.
- paganel 4y ago
  Not the OP, but it has recently come to light what lots of people had already suspected, i.e. that Bellingcat is laundering information provided to them by various Western intelligence companies. From here [1]: > Paul Mason Says Bellingcat Launders Information For Western Intelligence > "Just as Bellingcat get a steady stream of intel from Western agencies, I suspect the attacks on you and others are fed by Russian and Chinese intel," Mason is seen telling Khan, who has been the subject of a previous Grayzone exposé. They're not the only OSINT group doing it, but they're the most obvious. [1] https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/paul-mason-says-bellingcat-launders https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/paul-mason-says-bell...
  - rjzzleep 4y ago
    All you need to do is look at their financial accounts[0] Bellingcat is indeed pure propaganda. A lot of their Russia claims during the recent conflict have been pure propaganda. They were also baselessly perpetuating the lie that the Ukrainian negotiators and Abramovich were poisoned ahead of their talks in Turkey, which turned out to be complete BS, but they didn't back down after it was proving BS either[1]. He also made ridiculously outrageous claims about Russian resources for the war which he at least walked back a little bit from[2]. Which have been echoed in such a way that people in the west seriously believed that Russia is a third world army that can't handle basic logistics, so that we could funnel more weapons to Ukraine in the hopes of crippling Russia for the future. Everyone that questioned this completely absurd narrative was insulted, attacked and called a Putin shill. People would like to believe that Bellingcat is not propaganda, because they have been the primary source for certain bigger events that gave a lot of legitimacy to the 'Putin is Hitler' narrative and if it was propaganda, we would have to reevaluate those narratives. Another one of these propaganda shills is Anders Östlund who was calling for the dismantling of Germany and France along the way. “The Center for European Policy Analysis (CEPA)’s mission is to ensure a strong and enduring transatlantic alliance rooted in democratic values and principles with strategic vision, foresight, and policy impact”[3] It's not really surprising that these groups are funded by the national endowment for democracy, BAE, lockhead martin, etc.. But surprising to me is a bit that there are Microsoft and Google in some of these groups donor lists. [0] https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/2021/05/Bellingcat-Annual-Accounts-2020-1.pdf https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/2021/05/Bellingcat-An... [1] https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1509156285190651909 https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1509156285190651909 [2] https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1499849754897010694 https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1499849754897010694 [3] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS2k2giaAAEXRxC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS2k2giaAAEXRxC?format=jpg&name=...
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  > Takes one to know one. Let's do our best to make constructive arguments.

Bellingham is pure propaganda

by djbebs 4y ago

Bellingham is pure propaganda

Bellingcat. Why do you say that? Their analysis of the Beirut fertilizer explosion was spot on. And their work on MH17 was very good too. Of course that pointed a finger at the Russians who were claiming not to be operating in Ukraine at the time so maybe I actually see why some would prefer to baselessly brush away the whole site as "propaganda". Takes one to know one.

99_00 4y ago
Saying it's pure propaganda is obviously false and you are right to counter that. They aren't a neutral observer who is simply interested in facts and truth. They have an agenda and are not transparent about it.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  I remember a fake FUD "anonymous letter from FSB officer" which surfaced on HN in early March, for which Bellingcat was quick to issue a "seems legit". Needless to say, in a week most sources deleted the letter as its non-authenticity became too apparent. So basically, they're reposting/legitimizing war propaganda.
- hndamien 4y ago
  Seems like they tell the truth, but not the whole truth, just the CIA truth. But at least it appears to be true.
  - 99_00 4y ago
    There are countless ways to mislead without technically being false. One way is to intentionally be ignorant of the facts and give an uniformed opinion that fits your agenda. Take the letter from the 51 former senior intelligence officers who cast doubt on the Hunter Biden laptop. https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-4393-d7aa-af77-579f9b330000 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-4393-d7aa-af77-579f9... "We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal aSorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement -" Reading the letter, you see that they don't say that the laptop is misinformation, or that the emails are fake. Only that, without attempting to verify the evidence available, they suspect it is fake because it is Russia's MO. Why would people who make their career from verifying intelligence evidence not look at the actual evidence? Not attempt to verify before assessing it. So they don't have to lie about it.
    - hndamien 4y ago
      Great point! It’s great to be aware of this, and I would argue that it is still better than a lie, you just have to know you are observing a black hole (seeing something due to the effects around it)
nonrandomstring 4y ago
> Their analysis of the Beirut fertilizer explosion was spot on. The modelling and presentation (seemingly done in Blender?) was very impressive.
paganel 4y ago
Not the OP, but it has recently come to light what lots of people had already suspected, i.e. that Bellingcat is laundering information provided to them by various Western intelligence companies. From here [1]: > Paul Mason Says Bellingcat Launders Information For Western Intelligence > "Just as Bellingcat get a steady stream of intel from Western agencies, I suspect the attacks on you and others are fed by Russian and Chinese intel," Mason is seen telling Khan, who has been the subject of a previous Grayzone exposé. They're not the only OSINT group doing it, but they're the most obvious. [1] https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/paul-mason-says-bellingcat-launders https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/paul-mason-says-bell...
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  All you need to do is look at their financial accounts[0] Bellingcat is indeed pure propaganda. A lot of their Russia claims during the recent conflict have been pure propaganda. They were also baselessly perpetuating the lie that the Ukrainian negotiators and Abramovich were poisoned ahead of their talks in Turkey, which turned out to be complete BS, but they didn't back down after it was proving BS either[1]. He also made ridiculously outrageous claims about Russian resources for the war which he at least walked back a little bit from[2]. Which have been echoed in such a way that people in the west seriously believed that Russia is a third world army that can't handle basic logistics, so that we could funnel more weapons to Ukraine in the hopes of crippling Russia for the future. Everyone that questioned this completely absurd narrative was insulted, attacked and called a Putin shill. People would like to believe that Bellingcat is not propaganda, because they have been the primary source for certain bigger events that gave a lot of legitimacy to the 'Putin is Hitler' narrative and if it was propaganda, we would have to reevaluate those narratives. Another one of these propaganda shills is Anders Östlund who was calling for the dismantling of Germany and France along the way. “The Center for European Policy Analysis (CEPA)’s mission is to ensure a strong and enduring transatlantic alliance rooted in democratic values and principles with strategic vision, foresight, and policy impact”[3] It's not really surprising that these groups are funded by the national endowment for democracy, BAE, lockhead martin, etc.. But surprising to me is a bit that there are Microsoft and Google in some of these groups donor lists. [0] https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/2021/05/Bellingcat-Annual-Accounts-2020-1.pdf https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/2021/05/Bellingcat-An... [1] https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1509156285190651909 https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1509156285190651909 [2] https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1499849754897010694 https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1499849754897010694 [3] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS2k2giaAAEXRxC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS2k2giaAAEXRxC?format=jpg&name=...
vorpalhex 4y ago
> Takes one to know one. Let's do our best to make constructive arguments.