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I don't see how this will backfire. He seems to live a right life. No one in the government cares about whatever petty crimes he may commit. Federal law enforc

by hooande 15y ago

I don't see how this will backfire. He seems to live a right life. No one in the government cares about whatever petty crimes he may commit. Federal law enforcement only cares about petty crimes when they can lead to stopping major crimes. If they think you have information they want, they'll hold the maximum penalty for anything you do over your head until they get it. But they have no reason to harass someone who isn't involved in major criminal or subversive activity. Being on a watch list sucks and it's going to cause this guy inconvenience for life, for whatever he does. But federal agents tend to be intelligent and driven people. They aren't any more likely to waste time harassing a stranger than you are.

delinka 15y ago
Right up until the guy says something disagreeble to a politician or federal law enforcement bully who just wants to ruin the guy's life. Allowing law enforcement to amass information that it "doesn't care about" does lead to abuse of power. See 'National Security Letters' for more information.
quanticle 15y ago
That only works as long as he's not opposing the state or any corporation or individual with powerful state connections. I dare this guy to go down to the local Occupy Wall Street protests and then see how little the government cares. The fact is, we violate laws every day. In addition to actual violations, we do many more things that look suspicious and can be construed as potential violations. The government doesn't have to convict you in order to radically lower your quality of life. It merely has to investigate you. For example, I knew a person that protested against the RNC convention in 2008. Though they were protesting peacefully, their group was broken up and arrested by the FBI. For the next two years, their case was bounced down from federal court to state courts, and then from state courts to county courts. Two and a half years later, the case was dismissed without any explanation or apology. However, while the case was ongoing, this person was unable to get a job, unable to get housing, unable to do anything that would require a background check or a credit check. Was this person involved in major criminal or subversive activity? I don't see how she could have been, given that all charges were dropped. However, the actions taken against her can only be described as harassment.
- oelewapperke 15y ago
  Oh great the conspiracy argument. You know, even assuming this is true, and that's a BIG assumption, what is your suggestion ? Humans are the cornerstone of everything, and what you've just described is what humans do. You see people cheat the rules on toddler playgrounds, you see you and me cheat on our tax returns, you see business owners cheat their customers and suppliers, you see management fighting their own subordinates and colleagues with every dirty trick in the book, and yes, you see large groups, corporations, unions, scouting groups* go after individuals (though frankly, this happens much less in America compared to China, the middle east or even Europe). I understand the 99%'ers griefs, I even mostly agree with the more moderate among them, but they are every bit as bad as the people they're attacking. They're human.
pavel_lishin 15y ago
> He seems to live a right life. No one in the government cares about whatever petty crimes he may commit. You've polled every single federal and state employee, as well as various contractors?

by hooande 15y ago

delinka 15y ago

Right up until the guy says something disagreeble to a politician or federal law enforcement bully who just wants to ruin the guy's life. Allowing law enforcement to amass information that it "doesn't care about" does lead to abuse of power. See 'National Security Letters' for more information.

quanticle 15y ago

That only works as long as he's not opposing the state or any corporation or individual with powerful state connections. I dare this guy to go down to the local Occupy Wall Street protests and then see how little the government cares. The fact is, we violate laws every day. In addition to actual violations, we do many more things that look suspicious and can be construed as potential violations. The government doesn't have to convict you in order to radically lower your quality of life. It merely has to investigate you. For example, I knew a person that protested against the RNC convention in 2008. Though they were protesting peacefully, their group was broken up and arrested by the FBI. For the next two years, their case was bounced down from federal court to state courts, and then from state courts to county courts. Two and a half years later, the case was dismissed without any explanation or apology. However, while the case was ongoing, this person was unable to get a job, unable to get housing, unable to do anything that would require a background check or a credit check. Was this person involved in major criminal or subversive activity? I don't see how she could have been, given that all charges were dropped. However, the actions taken against her can only be described as harassment.

oelewapperke 15y ago
Oh great the conspiracy argument. You know, even assuming this is true, and that's a BIG assumption, what is your suggestion ? Humans are the cornerstone of everything, and what you've just described is what humans do. You see people cheat the rules on toddler playgrounds, you see you and me cheat on our tax returns, you see business owners cheat their customers and suppliers, you see management fighting their own subordinates and colleagues with every dirty trick in the book, and yes, you see large groups, corporations, unions, scouting groups* go after individuals (though frankly, this happens much less in America compared to China, the middle east or even Europe). I understand the 99%'ers griefs, I even mostly agree with the more moderate among them, but they are every bit as bad as the people they're attacking. They're human.

pavel_lishin 15y ago

> He seems to live a right life. No one in the government cares about whatever petty crimes he may commit. You've polled every single federal and state employee, as well as various contractors?