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I can't answer that. I know the basic statistics, as it was not long ago a question my wife and I sought out the answers to, but I don't know anything deeper a

I can't answer that. I know the basic statistics, as it was not long ago a question my wife and I sought out the answers to, but I don't know anything deeper about medical policies. I suspect that answer is probably some version of no. Aren't most abortions just induced miscarriages anyway?

anon291 4y ago
I was asking about the minority that aren't. Typically, exceptions to the rule are the most interesting.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Sure, but when it comes to macro policy they should be weighted appropriately.
  - anon291 4y ago
    I typically agree, but not when it comes to this. Very few percentage of Americans are executed, but we all agree that the way in which they are ought to be humane, for some definition of humane. Most people today seem to agree that 'painless' is a desirable property. So if it's true fetuses feel pain past some time in pregnancy, then I think it's imperative than anesthesia is used, and that medicine create such a thing, lest we betray our own convictions.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      At the risk of running way off into a tangent... > we all agree that the way in which they are ought to be humane Do we? As far as I can tell, the currently accepted execution protocol (for lethal injection) is more about ensuring that the execution looks painless, and only secondarily about whether or not it is in fact painless. We don't use drugs to paralyze muscles and stop the heart when we humanely euthanize someone, why do we do this for executions?
      - mc32 4y ago
        That’s a good question. Why couldn’t they use the cocktail given to assisted suicide subjects in Switzerland? Or any variety of cocktails (OD) known to be lethal to people? This still leaves an open question though. Why are people more concerned about the mode of execution of an adult vs the mode of termination of a foetus that could survive ex-utero in and neo-natal ICU?
        rootusrootus 4y ago
        Almost no fetuses are terminated anywhere near the date of viability, much less afterwards. It is a non-issue. The vast majority of terminations happen before week 12, and no fetus is viable until sometime around week 22 (and only with heroic measures).
        mc32 4y ago
        True but what is the pop total of executed on death row vs foetuses terminated in the third trimester?
        anon291 4y ago
        https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6907a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6907a1.htm CDC says about 5000. Is 5000 almost none? So that means almost no people died on 9/11 (3000 deaths)? Also, no children were murdered in schools (About 200 since 1999 altogether). Imagine being so callous.
      - anon291 4y ago
        I do think 'looking painless' is about as good as we're going to get when killing someone as you can't exactly ask them afterwards.
        rootusrootus 4y ago
        Then why do we not incorporate those two drugs in assisted suicide prescriptions? That's my point. We stop the heart because we intend to execute and we need to be sure. We paralyze the muscles because stopping the heart hurts, a lot, and people would squirm. We hope that the anesthetic is dulling the pain of that drug, but just in case it isn't we make sure the condemned can't show how much it hurts. I think we don't actually care if they hurt, and in fact we sorta do hope it hurts like hell. They're criminals, after all. We strongly deny, even in the face of pretty good evidence, that anyone innocent has ever been executed. Truth is we could execute people quite reliably with a small dose of fentanyl. Or we could use the accepted protocol for assisted suicide -- after all, we kill a lot more people with assisted suicide than by lethal injection, so we have a good amount of experience getting it right. I wonder about the stats on that -- how many failed suicides (of the assisted variety) compared with botched executions?
loeg 4y ago
Yeah, and miscarriage itself is just the lay terminology for a spontaneous abortion.
- anon291 4y ago
  A miscarriage / stillbirth isn't the same occurence as an intentional abortion, because if you intend to end a fetal life, you must also take care to make sure the ending is humane. People die naturally in ways we would never allow a person to do intentionally (assisted suicide does not mean you get to assist someone to die in any way possible)
  - mike00632 4y ago
    - User23 4y ago
      You appear to be confusing abortions and inductions. Both procedures end a pregnancy, but the former by definition involves the intent to kill the unborn child. In the case of a dead child, the procedure is an induction that results in a stillbirth. Or, if necessary, a caesarean section. Regardless an abortion is impossible on account of there no longer being an unborn baby in that case.
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        "Abortion" refers to the pregnancy, not the fetus. So yes, in fact, you can abort a pregnancy when the fetus is already dead.
        User23 4y ago
        It refers to both: “Induced termination of a pregnancy with destruction of the embryo or fetus.” As you and anyone else capable of using a dictionary can see, killing the unborn child is a defining characteristic of an abortion and differentiates it from other pregnancy ending procedures.

anon291 4y ago

I was asking about the minority that aren't. Typically, exceptions to the rule are the most interesting.

rootusrootus 4y ago
Sure, but when it comes to macro policy they should be weighted appropriately.
- anon291 4y ago
  I typically agree, but not when it comes to this. Very few percentage of Americans are executed, but we all agree that the way in which they are ought to be humane, for some definition of humane. Most people today seem to agree that 'painless' is a desirable property. So if it's true fetuses feel pain past some time in pregnancy, then I think it's imperative than anesthesia is used, and that medicine create such a thing, lest we betray our own convictions.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    At the risk of running way off into a tangent... > we all agree that the way in which they are ought to be humane Do we? As far as I can tell, the currently accepted execution protocol (for lethal injection) is more about ensuring that the execution looks painless, and only secondarily about whether or not it is in fact painless. We don't use drugs to paralyze muscles and stop the heart when we humanely euthanize someone, why do we do this for executions?
    - mc32 4y ago
      That’s a good question. Why couldn’t they use the cocktail given to assisted suicide subjects in Switzerland? Or any variety of cocktails (OD) known to be lethal to people? This still leaves an open question though. Why are people more concerned about the mode of execution of an adult vs the mode of termination of a foetus that could survive ex-utero in and neo-natal ICU?
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        Almost no fetuses are terminated anywhere near the date of viability, much less afterwards. It is a non-issue. The vast majority of terminations happen before week 12, and no fetus is viable until sometime around week 22 (and only with heroic measures).
        mc32 4y ago
        True but what is the pop total of executed on death row vs foetuses terminated in the third trimester?
        anon291 4y ago
        https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6907a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6907a1.htm CDC says about 5000. Is 5000 almost none? So that means almost no people died on 9/11 (3000 deaths)? Also, no children were murdered in schools (About 200 since 1999 altogether). Imagine being so callous.
    - anon291 4y ago
      I do think 'looking painless' is about as good as we're going to get when killing someone as you can't exactly ask them afterwards.
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        Then why do we not incorporate those two drugs in assisted suicide prescriptions? That's my point. We stop the heart because we intend to execute and we need to be sure. We paralyze the muscles because stopping the heart hurts, a lot, and people would squirm. We hope that the anesthetic is dulling the pain of that drug, but just in case it isn't we make sure the condemned can't show how much it hurts. I think we don't actually care if they hurt, and in fact we sorta do hope it hurts like hell. They're criminals, after all. We strongly deny, even in the face of pretty good evidence, that anyone innocent has ever been executed. Truth is we could execute people quite reliably with a small dose of fentanyl. Or we could use the accepted protocol for assisted suicide -- after all, we kill a lot more people with assisted suicide than by lethal injection, so we have a good amount of experience getting it right. I wonder about the stats on that -- how many failed suicides (of the assisted variety) compared with botched executions?

loeg 4y ago

Yeah, and miscarriage itself is just the lay terminology for a spontaneous abortion.

anon291 4y ago
A miscarriage / stillbirth isn't the same occurence as an intentional abortion, because if you intend to end a fetal life, you must also take care to make sure the ending is humane. People die naturally in ways we would never allow a person to do intentionally (assisted suicide does not mean you get to assist someone to die in any way possible)
- mike00632 4y ago
  - User23 4y ago
    You appear to be confusing abortions and inductions. Both procedures end a pregnancy, but the former by definition involves the intent to kill the unborn child. In the case of a dead child, the procedure is an induction that results in a stillbirth. Or, if necessary, a caesarean section. Regardless an abortion is impossible on account of there no longer being an unborn baby in that case.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      "Abortion" refers to the pregnancy, not the fetus. So yes, in fact, you can abort a pregnancy when the fetus is already dead.
      - User23 4y ago
        It refers to both: “Induced termination of a pregnancy with destruction of the embryo or fetus.” As you and anyone else capable of using a dictionary can see, killing the unborn child is a defining characteristic of an abortion and differentiates it from other pregnancy ending procedures.