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Yeah and Russia could have ended the war by now too by simply launching their nukes. I think it's weird you don't think anyone involved in the problem has thou

by gretch 4y ago

Yeah and Russia could have ended the war by now too by simply launching their nukes. I think it's weird you don't think anyone involved in the problem has thought of your proposed solution, or that you don't think there's any potential negative effects from antagonizing an unhinged despot with his finger on the nuke.

varjag 4y ago
Ah the classic "don't rattle Putin or nuclear war" defense.
- LewisVerstappen 4y ago
  What kind of moronic dismissal is that? Avoiding nuclear war should be our #1 priority. "Oh those stupid idiots are scared of nuclear war"
  - gambiting 4y ago
    I do believe that it's not "at all cost" though. Otherwise a nuclear power could do literally anything and you wouldn't be able to stop them "because nukes". If Putin started rolling tanks into Poland saying "don't stop me or I'll fire nukes" that would be the time to call his bluff, even if the consequences of getting this wrong are dire. The line has to be somewhere - right now it's the border of NATO member countries.
    - vogre 4y ago
      You forget there are two red lines and vague space between them. For NATO the borders of its members are red line. For Putin the red line is borders of Russia, that include Crimea and L/DPR for now. There is no way Putin leaves Crimea and nukes are not send to the Washington.
      - varjag 4y ago
        Ever wondered how Russia became the largest country out there? The borders of Russia end where Russia gets a bloody snot.
        vogre 4y ago
        Not actually true. Current borders of Russia are defined by its reckless self-destruction in 1991. Also some land on the east of Russia was given away without any fight. For example, Alaska or Fort Ross.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
    So Putin might nuke us and therefor we should be afraid to stand up to him and essentially let him have whatever he wants? That's truly moronic.
  - varjag 4y ago
    - LewisVerstappen 4y ago
      > It's the spineless cowards like you who brought us to this point. Lmao okay buddy. I'd argue that emotionally-charged rhetoric like that is exactly what got the West (the US especially) into the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. Charged rhetoric by emotional war hawks who kept shouting "you're either with us or against us" used to mask lies by US politicians and the media. Note - I'm not saying we do nothing to help Ukraine. Economic sanctions and supporting the Ukrainian military is great. But the West must be careful to avoid escalating to WW3.
      - varjag 4y ago
        Oh yes Afghanistan where the fears of nuclear retaliation ran especially high. But whatever. If Ukraine folds, 24-feb-2022 will be pinned in history books as the start of WW3 and in a few years all your fears will come to fruition. A coward dies a thousand deaths.
- Jcowell 4y ago
  Well yes? Is there any indication, given Putin’s back to a wall that he would not order nukes as a final fuck you ?
  - tshaddox 4y ago
    Then what are you suggesting? That Putin ought to be allowed to do literally anything he wants because if we tried to stop him he might nuke everyone?
    - brandonmenc 4y ago
      > allowed to do literally anything Uh, yeah? If you have nukes you can pretty much do whatever you want, short of launching them at another nuclear power. That's just like, reality. Remember this the next time everyone bellyaches about "unfair sanctions" or whatever when some country even hints that they're pursuing a nuclear program.
      - vogre 4y ago
        And if you don't have nukes, nuclear powers can do pretty much anything they wsant to you. As we have seen in Lybia, Serbia, Iraq, Syria. So don't be surprised when another country is rushing for nukes at all cost. These are the only thing that protect you against the West.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - beefield 4y ago
        > Uh, yeah? There was something about liberty and safety and deserving neither that some US president said long time ago that I think might very much apply here.
      - tshaddox 4y ago
        Well I appreciate your commitment to your position, but that’s patently absurd.
yks 4y ago
He's not unhinged, he's essentially a boss of a drug cartel, flaunting his strength and cruelty but respecting the power of others. There is no real value for him to launch nukes unless he thinks the West is absolutely weak and I'm afraid that conviction is actually growing.
- LewisVerstappen 4y ago
  This is exactly what everyone said about Putin invading Ukraine. Putin invading Ukraine was impossible because he's not unhinged and it would be an insanely stupid thing to do. He's just gathering his armies next to the border because he's flaunting his strength. >I'm afraid that conviction is actually growing Based off your in-depth research of casually browsing NY Times headlines?
  - yks 4y ago
    > This is exactly what everyone said about Putin invading Ukraine. First, not everyone, Ukrainians knew. Second, after the end of WW2 we lived (wanted to live) under a spell that conquering whole countries with some opportunistic genocide on top is not going to happen anymore, or at least not in the "civilized" Europe. Now, I hope the spell is off, we can see the world more clearly, and it's a raw power competition in which Putin thinks he has the winning cards or can at least out bluff everyone.
    - LewisVerstappen 4y ago
      > First, not everyone, Ukrainians knew That's completely false. Just read the news from February. U.S. Intelligence was warning Ukraine that Putin was planning to invade while Zelensky was in denial. The invasion began on Thursday Feb. 24. On Monday Feb. 21, Zelenky was insistent that Putin wouldn't be crazy enough invade Ukraine. Here's some articles from right before the invasion - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60174684 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60174684 - https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220206-us-officials-warn-russia-is-preparing-full-scale-invasion-of-ukraine https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220206-us-officials-war... - https://nypost.com/2022/01/28/zelensky-rebukes-western-panic-over-russia-invasion-fear-after-biden-call/ https://nypost.com/2022/01/28/zelensky-rebukes-western-panic...
planb 4y ago
In fact, this is really simple: If Putin wants to launch nukes, he will launch nukes. If Putin thinks it will help his cause, he will launch nukes. There's nothing we can do about this. The strongest weapon Russia has right now is the threat of launching nukes it seems...
wiseowise 4y ago
> Yeah and Russia could have ended the war by now too by simply launching their nukes. The only thing they can end with nukes are themselves. What was even the point of attacking Ukraine, if you want to make it a nuclear wasteland?
Alupis 4y ago
> Yeah and Russia could have ended the war by now too by simply launching their nukes. This sentiment is nuts, in my opinion. Russia isn't the only nation that has nukes folks... everyone around Russia has them too... If Putin were to nuke a major metropolitan area, it would be the end of Putin (literally) and likely the end of Russia (at least it's current government). The unification of NATO, the EU, and the entire "west" would be so strong and unanimous, there would be no positive outcome for Russia. Let's stop cowering because one dude threatened the entire world... the world is much bigger than Russia.

by gretch 4y ago

varjag 4y ago

Ah the classic "don't rattle Putin or nuclear war" defense.

LewisVerstappen 4y ago
What kind of moronic dismissal is that? Avoiding nuclear war should be our #1 priority. "Oh those stupid idiots are scared of nuclear war"
- gambiting 4y ago
  I do believe that it's not "at all cost" though. Otherwise a nuclear power could do literally anything and you wouldn't be able to stop them "because nukes". If Putin started rolling tanks into Poland saying "don't stop me or I'll fire nukes" that would be the time to call his bluff, even if the consequences of getting this wrong are dire. The line has to be somewhere - right now it's the border of NATO member countries.
  - vogre 4y ago
    You forget there are two red lines and vague space between them. For NATO the borders of its members are red line. For Putin the red line is borders of Russia, that include Crimea and L/DPR for now. There is no way Putin leaves Crimea and nukes are not send to the Washington.
    - varjag 4y ago
      Ever wondered how Russia became the largest country out there? The borders of Russia end where Russia gets a bloody snot.
      - vogre 4y ago
        Not actually true. Current borders of Russia are defined by its reckless self-destruction in 1991. Also some land on the east of Russia was given away without any fight. For example, Alaska or Fort Ross.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  So Putin might nuke us and therefor we should be afraid to stand up to him and essentially let him have whatever he wants? That's truly moronic.
- varjag 4y ago
  - LewisVerstappen 4y ago
    > It's the spineless cowards like you who brought us to this point. Lmao okay buddy. I'd argue that emotionally-charged rhetoric like that is exactly what got the West (the US especially) into the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. Charged rhetoric by emotional war hawks who kept shouting "you're either with us or against us" used to mask lies by US politicians and the media. Note - I'm not saying we do nothing to help Ukraine. Economic sanctions and supporting the Ukrainian military is great. But the West must be careful to avoid escalating to WW3.
    - varjag 4y ago
      Oh yes Afghanistan where the fears of nuclear retaliation ran especially high. But whatever. If Ukraine folds, 24-feb-2022 will be pinned in history books as the start of WW3 and in a few years all your fears will come to fruition. A coward dies a thousand deaths.
Jcowell 4y ago
Well yes? Is there any indication, given Putin’s back to a wall that he would not order nukes as a final fuck you ?
- tshaddox 4y ago
  Then what are you suggesting? That Putin ought to be allowed to do literally anything he wants because if we tried to stop him he might nuke everyone?
  - brandonmenc 4y ago
    > allowed to do literally anything Uh, yeah? If you have nukes you can pretty much do whatever you want, short of launching them at another nuclear power. That's just like, reality. Remember this the next time everyone bellyaches about "unfair sanctions" or whatever when some country even hints that they're pursuing a nuclear program.
    - vogre 4y ago
      And if you don't have nukes, nuclear powers can do pretty much anything they wsant to you. As we have seen in Lybia, Serbia, Iraq, Syria. So don't be surprised when another country is rushing for nukes at all cost. These are the only thing that protect you against the West.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - beefield 4y ago
      > Uh, yeah? There was something about liberty and safety and deserving neither that some US president said long time ago that I think might very much apply here.
    - tshaddox 4y ago
      Well I appreciate your commitment to your position, but that’s patently absurd.

yks 4y ago

He's not unhinged, he's essentially a boss of a drug cartel, flaunting his strength and cruelty but respecting the power of others. There is no real value for him to launch nukes unless he thinks the West is absolutely weak and I'm afraid that conviction is actually growing.

LewisVerstappen 4y ago
This is exactly what everyone said about Putin invading Ukraine. Putin invading Ukraine was impossible because he's not unhinged and it would be an insanely stupid thing to do. He's just gathering his armies next to the border because he's flaunting his strength. >I'm afraid that conviction is actually growing Based off your in-depth research of casually browsing NY Times headlines?
- yks 4y ago
  > This is exactly what everyone said about Putin invading Ukraine. First, not everyone, Ukrainians knew. Second, after the end of WW2 we lived (wanted to live) under a spell that conquering whole countries with some opportunistic genocide on top is not going to happen anymore, or at least not in the "civilized" Europe. Now, I hope the spell is off, we can see the world more clearly, and it's a raw power competition in which Putin thinks he has the winning cards or can at least out bluff everyone.
  - LewisVerstappen 4y ago
    > First, not everyone, Ukrainians knew That's completely false. Just read the news from February. U.S. Intelligence was warning Ukraine that Putin was planning to invade while Zelensky was in denial. The invasion began on Thursday Feb. 24. On Monday Feb. 21, Zelenky was insistent that Putin wouldn't be crazy enough invade Ukraine. Here's some articles from right before the invasion - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60174684 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60174684 - https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220206-us-officials-warn-russia-is-preparing-full-scale-invasion-of-ukraine https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220206-us-officials-war... - https://nypost.com/2022/01/28/zelensky-rebukes-western-panic-over-russia-invasion-fear-after-biden-call/ https://nypost.com/2022/01/28/zelensky-rebukes-western-panic...

planb 4y ago

In fact, this is really simple: If Putin wants to launch nukes, he will launch nukes. If Putin thinks it will help his cause, he will launch nukes. There's nothing we can do about this. The strongest weapon Russia has right now is the threat of launching nukes it seems...

wiseowise 4y ago

> Yeah and Russia could have ended the war by now too by simply launching their nukes. The only thing they can end with nukes are themselves. What was even the point of attacking Ukraine, if you want to make it a nuclear wasteland?

Alupis 4y ago

> Yeah and Russia could have ended the war by now too by simply launching their nukes. This sentiment is nuts, in my opinion. Russia isn't the only nation that has nukes folks... everyone around Russia has them too... If Putin were to nuke a major metropolitan area, it would be the end of Putin (literally) and likely the end of Russia (at least it's current government). The unification of NATO, the EU, and the entire "west" would be so strong and unanimous, there would be no positive outcome for Russia. Let's stop cowering because one dude threatened the entire world... the world is much bigger than Russia.