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I really don't get it - the west must a) either know more about Russia and its plans than the public or b) are somewhat complicit in gaining from a long war.

gretch 4y ago
The 2 aren't mutually exclusive but anyone who doesn't believe in A is pretty naive. It's saying that we, keyboard warriors on a programming forum, are just as knowledgeable as e.g. Biden who has the full briefing and resources of the CIA
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> west must a) either know more about Russia and its plans than the public or b) are somewhat complicit in gaining from a long war. Or didn't know what was going on until well after the war was underway. U.S. tactical intelligence has no match on earth. American strategic intelligence is almost predictably garbage. From Iraq to Kabul to Kyiv, we've consistently called the shots wrong.
- cpursley 4y ago
  Many would argue that US tactical intelligence is overrated, as well. When's the last time the US fought against a near-peer?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > When's the last time the US fought against a near-peer? When's the last time any major power fought a near peer? I would have said we're getting solid evidence of American intelligence supremacy out of Ukraine. But given the incompetence of the Russian military it would be embarrassing to put them in the same league as China.
    - cpursley 4y ago
      The Russian military is only incompetent on American social media. Despite the memes and all the projection going around, they're running a master class in modern combined arms maneuver warfare. Their territorial gains and low losses relative to Ukraine speak for themselves; the Donbas is weeks, perhaps days, from being consolidated.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > they're running a master class in modern combined arms maneuver warfare Ah. Got it.
hinkley 4y ago
If you consider that the US has been 'at war' with Russia since 1945, then the conflict in the Ukraine is one battle, not a war, and winning battles but losing the war is how the USSR disintegrated in the first place. More of that was luck than the State Dept will ever admit, but here we are, and I'll be damned if I know where we are 'going'. There's a tendency for armchair commentators to imagine an opponent 'disappearing' once beaten. If you can make 6.6 million square miles of country disappear, then we should all be kneeling before you and calling you Zod.

gretch 4y ago

The 2 aren't mutually exclusive but anyone who doesn't believe in A is pretty naive. It's saying that we, keyboard warriors on a programming forum, are just as knowledgeable as e.g. Biden who has the full briefing and resources of the CIA

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> west must a) either know more about Russia and its plans than the public or b) are somewhat complicit in gaining from a long war. Or didn't know what was going on until well after the war was underway. U.S. tactical intelligence has no match on earth. American strategic intelligence is almost predictably garbage. From Iraq to Kabul to Kyiv, we've consistently called the shots wrong.

cpursley 4y ago
Many would argue that US tactical intelligence is overrated, as well. When's the last time the US fought against a near-peer?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > When's the last time the US fought against a near-peer? When's the last time any major power fought a near peer? I would have said we're getting solid evidence of American intelligence supremacy out of Ukraine. But given the incompetence of the Russian military it would be embarrassing to put them in the same league as China.
  - cpursley 4y ago
    The Russian military is only incompetent on American social media. Despite the memes and all the projection going around, they're running a master class in modern combined arms maneuver warfare. Their territorial gains and low losses relative to Ukraine speak for themselves; the Donbas is weeks, perhaps days, from being consolidated.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > they're running a master class in modern combined arms maneuver warfare Ah. Got it.

hinkley 4y ago

If you consider that the US has been 'at war' with Russia since 1945, then the conflict in the Ukraine is one battle, not a war, and winning battles but losing the war is how the USSR disintegrated in the first place. More of that was luck than the State Dept will ever admit, but here we are, and I'll be damned if I know where we are 'going'. There's a tendency for armchair commentators to imagine an opponent 'disappearing' once beaten. If you can make 6.6 million square miles of country disappear, then we should all be kneeling before you and calling you Zod.