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> This whole system preferences thing for example Do you remember what the battery icon in System Preferences looked like in the first beta of Mac OS 12? It's

> This whole system preferences thing for example Do you remember what the battery icon in System Preferences looked like in the first beta of Mac OS 12? It's a beta. Give it some time. It's not out yet.

grishka 4y ago
I'm very doubtful that by the time it reaches release, they'll bring back the icon grid and the sensible layouts (instead of those stupid iOS-like lists) in the panes themselves.
- danaris 4y ago
  Frankly, the icon grid was arranged somewhat arbitrarily to begin with. I'd be quite happy to have a largely-alphabetical list, making it much easier to actually find the specific preference pane I'm looking for.
  - grishka 4y ago
    There used to be labeled categories that made sense. Then they removed the labels, and then they merged some of the categories.
    - dividedbyzero 4y ago
      I've not tried out Ventura myself yet, but from the footage I've seen, the new settings app seems like an upgrade to me. I've never really found my way around the icon grid, none of the iterations since Leopard worked well for me (and I've probably used all of them), so good riddance, happy to see them they try something new. Those lists may break some people's muscle memory, but I'm way faster skimming through a list than finding things in a more or less arbitrary 2d layout. And besides, it's looks pretty similar to iOS, and if that's executed well, then I should be able to share muscle memory between iOS and macOS, like with Control Center (which is neat).
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        The new settings forget that desktop OSes are desktop OSes and have a rich library of controls that have interaction modes distinct from touch. See this: https://twitter.com/siracusa/status/1534261202167152649 https://twitter.com/siracusa/status/1534261202167152649 Instead of distinct readable controls with clear interactions it's a sea of gray upon gray upon gray. It breaks Apple's own HIGs which says not to (over)use switches, and use checkboxes instead. The drop downs no longer look like they can be interacted with. Where you'd have settings that can easily fit on a single pane in multicolumn view, you now have lists upon lists upon lists that are entirely alien to the Mac OS https://twitter.com/oskargroth/status/1534133558817742848 https://twitter.com/oskargroth/status/1534133558817742848 Interface consistency is a bullshit goal: https://twitter.com/MarioGuzman/status/1534585939971801088 https://twitter.com/MarioGuzman/status/1534585939971801088
  - pram 4y ago
    You can make the current preferences panel alphabetical.
  - NaOH 4y ago
    I'm still running OS X (10.11, El Capitan), but System Preferences under that OS had a View menu option Organize Alphabetically. That was present in many (all?) versions of OS X. I don't know if/when that may have been removed.
    - OberstKrueger 4y ago
      It's still there on Monterey, so any removal or altering of functionality will be part of the redesign in Ventura.
    - danaris 4y ago
      Well I'll be darned. I never noticed that. Thanks!
- zitterbewegung 4y ago
  Every time I would open system preferences I would just use the search bar to open what I was looking for. I think they should have just either grouped the icons better or let you choose. Right now the current layout doesn’t fit unless you make it bigger which is weird on my XDR when I can just make it longer …
- derefr 4y ago
  What do you mean, iOS-like? The new System Preferences has a very clear precedent in macOS: https://www.versionmuseum.com/images/operating-systems/classic-mac-os/classic-mac-os%5E1987%5Esystem-4-control-panel.jpg https://www.versionmuseum.com/images/operating-systems/class...
  - grishka 4y ago
    The new preference panes themselves are very iOS-like, and that's unprecedented.
    - andrekandre 4y ago
      i reminds more of gnome tbh post big-sur, at least dark-theme, the overall ui looks very much like gnome in many ways...
      - grishka 4y ago
        And modern Gnome is also terrible because they insist on supporting touchscreens as first-class input devices at the expense of sanely sized controls for the remaining 95% of users.
        andrekandre 4y ago
        yea, i suppose that is the common theme between the two... at least it would explain a lot...
        grishka 4y ago
        Gnome is at least capable of running on devices that have touchscreens. There aren't many of these, and many people who do have a touchscreen on their laptop don't use it, but at least it's a somewhat defensible position. Apple, on the other hand, still maintains two separate platforms for touch and non-touch input. There isn't a single Mac with a touchscreen and there probably won't be any in the foreseeable future. This design thus makes absolutely zero sense in macOS.

grishka 4y ago

I'm very doubtful that by the time it reaches release, they'll bring back the icon grid and the sensible layouts (instead of those stupid iOS-like lists) in the panes themselves.

danaris 4y ago
Frankly, the icon grid was arranged somewhat arbitrarily to begin with. I'd be quite happy to have a largely-alphabetical list, making it much easier to actually find the specific preference pane I'm looking for.
- grishka 4y ago
  There used to be labeled categories that made sense. Then they removed the labels, and then they merged some of the categories.
  - dividedbyzero 4y ago
    I've not tried out Ventura myself yet, but from the footage I've seen, the new settings app seems like an upgrade to me. I've never really found my way around the icon grid, none of the iterations since Leopard worked well for me (and I've probably used all of them), so good riddance, happy to see them they try something new. Those lists may break some people's muscle memory, but I'm way faster skimming through a list than finding things in a more or less arbitrary 2d layout. And besides, it's looks pretty similar to iOS, and if that's executed well, then I should be able to share muscle memory between iOS and macOS, like with Control Center (which is neat).
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      The new settings forget that desktop OSes are desktop OSes and have a rich library of controls that have interaction modes distinct from touch. See this: https://twitter.com/siracusa/status/1534261202167152649 https://twitter.com/siracusa/status/1534261202167152649 Instead of distinct readable controls with clear interactions it's a sea of gray upon gray upon gray. It breaks Apple's own HIGs which says not to (over)use switches, and use checkboxes instead. The drop downs no longer look like they can be interacted with. Where you'd have settings that can easily fit on a single pane in multicolumn view, you now have lists upon lists upon lists that are entirely alien to the Mac OS https://twitter.com/oskargroth/status/1534133558817742848 https://twitter.com/oskargroth/status/1534133558817742848 Interface consistency is a bullshit goal: https://twitter.com/MarioGuzman/status/1534585939971801088 https://twitter.com/MarioGuzman/status/1534585939971801088
- pram 4y ago
  You can make the current preferences panel alphabetical.
- NaOH 4y ago
  I'm still running OS X (10.11, El Capitan), but System Preferences under that OS had a View menu option Organize Alphabetically. That was present in many (all?) versions of OS X. I don't know if/when that may have been removed.
  - OberstKrueger 4y ago
    It's still there on Monterey, so any removal or altering of functionality will be part of the redesign in Ventura.
  - danaris 4y ago
    Well I'll be darned. I never noticed that. Thanks!
zitterbewegung 4y ago
Every time I would open system preferences I would just use the search bar to open what I was looking for. I think they should have just either grouped the icons better or let you choose. Right now the current layout doesn’t fit unless you make it bigger which is weird on my XDR when I can just make it longer …
derefr 4y ago
What do you mean, iOS-like? The new System Preferences has a very clear precedent in macOS: https://www.versionmuseum.com/images/operating-systems/classic-mac-os/classic-mac-os%5E1987%5Esystem-4-control-panel.jpg https://www.versionmuseum.com/images/operating-systems/class...
- grishka 4y ago
  The new preference panes themselves are very iOS-like, and that's unprecedented.
  - andrekandre 4y ago
    i reminds more of gnome tbh post big-sur, at least dark-theme, the overall ui looks very much like gnome in many ways...
    - grishka 4y ago
      And modern Gnome is also terrible because they insist on supporting touchscreens as first-class input devices at the expense of sanely sized controls for the remaining 95% of users.
      - andrekandre 4y ago
        yea, i suppose that is the common theme between the two... at least it would explain a lot...
        grishka 4y ago
        Gnome is at least capable of running on devices that have touchscreens. There aren't many of these, and many people who do have a touchscreen on their laptop don't use it, but at least it's a somewhat defensible position. Apple, on the other hand, still maintains two separate platforms for touch and non-touch input. There isn't a single Mac with a touchscreen and there probably won't be any in the foreseeable future. This design thus makes absolutely zero sense in macOS.