5 ms·

This type of reaction seems a little extreme to me, it was just a silly joke, I wonder if the opposite would have happened how would the men have reacted? I li

by voidr 15y ago

This type of reaction seems a little extreme to me, it was just a silly joke, I wonder if the opposite would have happened how would the men have reacted? I like jokes like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BxckAMaTDc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BxckAMaTDc By all means women speakers should make similar jokes instead of overreacting. I get the feeling that some women just can't take a joke. Of course there are more serious cases, but stuff like this should be ignored. I understand that the lack of women in tech(especially open source) is a barrier to entry for women, but reactions like these only make that barrier wider. I once read a story about someone who said will never hire a black person, because if he ever fires him for some reason, the guy will come back with his lawyer and say he was fired because he was black.

bruce511 15y ago
Voidr, >> I get the feeling that some women just can't take a joke. Your sentiment will no doubt be shared by many. The point with offense though is it's not up to the joke-teller to determine if a joke is offensive or not. It either offends a group, or it does not. You're right, Adam just made a silly joke. You see it as a silly joke. However, and this is the point, now that you've been educated to the fact that the joke was offensive, what is your response? Your reaction, that they should not have been offended, is unreasonable, because the joke was not at your expense. Would you become the aribter for racial jokes? Native American jokes? How about child pornography jokes? Religious jokes? Why then jokes about a minority gender group? I suspect, and I mean this with respect, we could find some sensitive area in your life, or anyone's life which would be "just a funny joke" to some, but which are deeply offensive to others. Yes, we live in a "politically correct" world, but there are still lines as to what is ok, and what is not. And the receiver is the one that determines those lines, not the sender.
- DuncanIdaho 15y ago
  How do you propose a world will look, where we have gone so far, that offending other people is made taboo? I honestly propose that some people should realize, that life is not all unicorns and cute puppies. Or as it goes: If you think that I have an attitude problem, perhaps you should check that you don't have a perception problem.
  - mjg59 15y ago
    There's a pretty strong distinction between generally offending people in a social situation and specifically offending a minority in a professional situation. Life's not all unicorns and cute puppies. But when someone goes to a professional event, they shouldn't be told that some aspect of their biology makes them less capable in that field.
- impendia 15y ago
  I disagree with you that the barometer of offensive is simply whether someone was offended. I think a good argument can be made that the sexist statement was objectively wrong. This argument has been made elsewhere much more eloquently than I can, so I won't try to repeat it. But I think the fear behind "political correctness", which I used to share, is that whether one's behavior is rude is arbitrary and completely decided by other people. I think "you've been educated to the fact that the joke was offensive" is misleadingly simple. What's true is that many people, including me, think such jokes are offensive. But more importantly, one can think about these issues from a neutral point of view. When I was prodded, as a teenager, to think deeply about such issues, consider other points of view, and talk to a lot of people about sexism -- I agreed with the conclusion that these jokes are indeed offensive. I believe that anyone who goes through the same process will inevitably reach the same conclusion. That said, as with any contentious issue, in the end it's everyone's privilege to decide for themselves.
Jach 15y ago
My rule of thumb: if you're going to make sexist jokes, make sure to make jokes about both sexes near the same time so you're discriminating equally. What I found funny about the talk's comment after listening to it, was the reference to tons of conferences getting freaked out over potential sexism. I believe for OSCon some speakers were threatening to withdraw their talks since O'Reilly hadn't put out an official "Sexism--not okay" statement yet. (Which they promptly got around to.) The note to the reactions was the real joke for me, not the sexism.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  I think you missed the joke. It's not mocking women, it's mocking people who are easily offended by throwaway lines.
  - Jach 15y ago
    In other words, the reactions?

by voidr 15y ago

bruce511 15y ago

Voidr, >> I get the feeling that some women just can't take a joke. Your sentiment will no doubt be shared by many. The point with offense though is it's not up to the joke-teller to determine if a joke is offensive or not. It either offends a group, or it does not. You're right, Adam just made a silly joke. You see it as a silly joke. However, and this is the point, now that you've been educated to the fact that the joke was offensive, what is your response? Your reaction, that they should not have been offended, is unreasonable, because the joke was not at your expense. Would you become the aribter for racial jokes? Native American jokes? How about child pornography jokes? Religious jokes? Why then jokes about a minority gender group? I suspect, and I mean this with respect, we could find some sensitive area in your life, or anyone's life which would be "just a funny joke" to some, but which are deeply offensive to others. Yes, we live in a "politically correct" world, but there are still lines as to what is ok, and what is not. And the receiver is the one that determines those lines, not the sender.

DuncanIdaho 15y ago
How do you propose a world will look, where we have gone so far, that offending other people is made taboo? I honestly propose that some people should realize, that life is not all unicorns and cute puppies. Or as it goes: If you think that I have an attitude problem, perhaps you should check that you don't have a perception problem.
- mjg59 15y ago
  There's a pretty strong distinction between generally offending people in a social situation and specifically offending a minority in a professional situation. Life's not all unicorns and cute puppies. But when someone goes to a professional event, they shouldn't be told that some aspect of their biology makes them less capable in that field.
impendia 15y ago
I disagree with you that the barometer of offensive is simply whether someone was offended. I think a good argument can be made that the sexist statement was objectively wrong. This argument has been made elsewhere much more eloquently than I can, so I won't try to repeat it. But I think the fear behind "political correctness", which I used to share, is that whether one's behavior is rude is arbitrary and completely decided by other people. I think "you've been educated to the fact that the joke was offensive" is misleadingly simple. What's true is that many people, including me, think such jokes are offensive. But more importantly, one can think about these issues from a neutral point of view. When I was prodded, as a teenager, to think deeply about such issues, consider other points of view, and talk to a lot of people about sexism -- I agreed with the conclusion that these jokes are indeed offensive. I believe that anyone who goes through the same process will inevitably reach the same conclusion. That said, as with any contentious issue, in the end it's everyone's privilege to decide for themselves.

Jach 15y ago

My rule of thumb: if you're going to make sexist jokes, make sure to make jokes about both sexes near the same time so you're discriminating equally. What I found funny about the talk's comment after listening to it, was the reference to tons of conferences getting freaked out over potential sexism. I believe for OSCon some speakers were threatening to withdraw their talks since O'Reilly hadn't put out an official "Sexism--not okay" statement yet. (Which they promptly got around to.) The note to the reactions was the real joke for me, not the sexism.

yummyfajitas 15y ago
I think you missed the joke. It's not mocking women, it's mocking people who are easily offended by throwaway lines.
- Jach 15y ago
  In other words, the reactions?