11 ms·

This doesn't surprise me. I've been prescribed Ritalin at times both as a child and an adult in small doses. It is a remarkable strong medication, and operates

This doesn't surprise me. I've been prescribed Ritalin at times both as a child and an adult in small doses. It is a remarkable strong medication, and operates much like I imagine recreational drugs operate - there's a definite strong high, and an equally brutal comedown afterword. I would be extremely cautious about prescribing this to anyone, especially children unless nearly every other kind of intervention has been explored. If you are a parent and considering Ritalin for your child, first ask yourself if you'd consider legal cocaine to be a reasonable solution for your child. If that sounds insane to you, then you should consider the fact that Ritalin is probably not so different.

n8cpdx 4y ago
If you’re getting a high from it, your dose is too high. If there is a “brutal” come down, your dose is too high. What do you consider a “small” dose?
- TrevorJ 4y ago
  First off, do you are assuming that everyone reacts to drugs in the same way? I was taking 1/5th to 1/10th of a 'normal' dose. Secondly, if you do a few minutes of research online you will find that both issues (the high, and the comedown) is not at all an uncommon complaint. Ritalin is a CNS stimulant. With respect, you are being a bit too condescending relative to the amount of knowledge of the issue you posses.
  - Avamander 4y ago
    They aren't assuming it about you specifically. It's just a common part of the process, with a common solution. It's likely a very valid question. If you're one of the few for whom it didn't work out, cool. But with equal respect, your anecdotal experience is not sufficient to call it "legal cocaine". Neither is it sufficient to make generilizations about how medical care of ADHD should be approached.
    - TrevorJ 4y ago
      1. Ritalin is a schedule V medication precisely because of the reasons I mentioned. 2. Five minutes of research online shows that my experience is not uncommon. Hell, reading the warning label from the pharmaceutical manufacturer is sufficient to make my point. 3. I am very pro-medication when it comes to treating ADHD, but I also believe many people are not sufficiently educated on the potential consequences of these medications in children.
      - dymk 4y ago
        Ritalin still isn't "cocaine", despite your negative experience with it, and you're going to do more harm to those who would benefit from it by spreading around FUD. Part of the process of treating ADHD is finding the right medication, and Ritalin works for most, and if it's working as intended, does not produce the "high" feeling that you got. If you're getting high off of it, it's not the drug for you, or you're on the wrong dose.
      - Avamander 4y ago
        > Ritalin is a schedule V medication precisely because of the reasons I mentioned. Doesn't make it okay to call it "legal cocaine". > Five minutes of research online shows that my experience is not uncommon. Hell, reading the warning label from the pharmaceutical manufacturer is sufficient to make my point. Obviously it's documented, but it doesn't make your point. As I already said, it's a thing that happens in the process when finding the correct dosage for an individual. Though for neurotypical people who don't have the disorder, there's no correct dosage and they'll experience what you did.
        TrevorJ 4y ago
        I did not call it legal cocaine, though I did compare the two, and I stand by that statement. Ritalin's mechanism for action is extremely similar to cocaine - it even competes for the same binding sites on neurons. It's still a very useful therapeutic, and I strongly believe it should not be stigmatized. But parents absolutely do need to be educated about the sort of prescription drug this is. I liken this somewhat to the use of opioids for pain control after surgery: they are a fantastic tool that I would certainly not want to forego. But I am grateful that we've become more intentional about educating people on some of the specific dangers around their use so that patients can be more aware. I'd like to see the same thing happen around the use of strong stimulants in children.
  - n8cpdx 4y ago
    What do you consider to be a “normal” dose? I’ve heard of people using 60+ mg of Ritalin and thinking that’s normal. Ritalin is a powerful stimulant at 5 or 10mg. You can get lower doses or different formulations - e.g. 5 or 10mg at extended release to last through the day. Extended release is usually preferred by doctors in part because you avoid the highs and lows. Regardless of what “normal” practice is, if you are getting high from methylphenidate, the dose is wrong, and if you can’t get therapeutic effects at a dose low enough to avoid a “brutal” comedown, you should be looking for alternatives.
    - TrevorJ 4y ago
      >if you can’t get therapeutic effects at a dose low enough to avoid a “brutal” comedown, you should be looking for alternatives. Agreed, this is why I no longer use it to treat my condition. The point I am making is that parents need to be aware of these potential side effects, because a child isn't necessarily in a position to articulate the fact that they are experiencing adverse effects like this. The medication is a CNS stimulant first and foremost. These effects aren't exactly rare.
    - smittywerben 4y ago
      > I’ve heard of people using 60+ mg of Ritalin and thinking that’s normal. Hello. That's me. I can sleep on that dose. Is that not normal?
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
  Yeah instead take half the dose with three- or four-hour intervals.
daniel-cussen 4y ago
Methylphenidate and cocaine are very very similar, but the nuance is different. It' like a bank account at -1¢ or +1¢, very similar accounts, how will they differ as time passes? In particular because cocaine is addictive whereas methylphenidate is not. Cocaine is euphoric while methylphenidate is much less, cocaine is arrogant while methylphenidate is just in-the-zone, just makes you want to work. Makes drudgery feel like a video game. There is also such a thing as an affine cocaine user, like Maradona, Iceberg Slim, and Sherlock Holmes (whose cocaine use was based on a real guy--a fucking freakish detective whose privacy Arthur Conan Doyle protected). These guys actually have an essentially healthy relationship with the drug, and yeah it's rare but it exists and they should be allowed to have it. Or narcoleptics, they're not going to get heart problems, let them. Or what? If Sherlock Holmes was on your child's abduction case, would you tell him no cocaine injections for the deduction trances? Nah man, you'd tell him go for it. That's legal cocaine. And the best detective of all time! In that case, would you still argue legal cocaine is bad for your child? Honestly I'm like, methylphenidate can be taken like in high school, for athletic competitions, tests, and writing essays...that's when I would have taken that or similar. Later on parties, that's medically acceptable, and is a medically-accepted partly-recreational use for a part of the supply, which is mostly intended for work. So one thing, daily methylphenidate reduces adult height about as much as artistic gymnastics, like two inches. Apart from that, like something milder is better...like coffee with whey protein, that's worth 5 milligrams of methylphenidate. There's vyvanse, that's a good one for kids. There's adderall, too strong I'd say, but typically there's adderall deficits and ritalin deficits, never heard of someone being helped by both. I would say I would have wanted the choice for myself as a kid.
- TrevorJ 4y ago
  It certainly can be addictive. "Warnings Ritalin may be habit-forming. Tell your doctor if you have a history of drug or alcohol addiction. Keep the medication where others cannot get to it. Misuse of Ritalin can cause addiction, overdose, or death. Tell your doctor if you have had problems with drug or alcohol abuse." https://www.drugs.com/ritalin.html https://www.drugs.com/ritalin.html
  - 4y ago
smittywerben 4y ago
> I would be extremely cautious about prescribing this to anyone, especially children unless nearly every other kind of intervention has been explored. A well-trained psychiatrist can diagnose me in <10 minutes and ADHD meds are not that strong. I don't know what "intervention" means, but outgrowing ADHD is a common myth [1]. What you describe is not ADHD. I would try elsewhere. Sorry. [1] https://chadd.org/about-adhd/myths-and-misunderstandings/ https://chadd.org/about-adhd/myths-and-misunderstandings/
- TrevorJ 4y ago
  I don't claim that people outgrow ADHD, nor do I believe that to be the case. There are a number of other therapeutic drugs for ADHD beyond Ritalin, and there are other useful behavioral interventions including diet, exercise, time outdoors, cognitive therapies etc. That is what I mean by 'interventions'. I'm trying, probably somewhat poorly, to make the point that there are a lot of potentially useful things to try in terms of managing ADHD beyond Ritalin (though that can be a very useful tool for some).

n8cpdx 4y ago

If you’re getting a high from it, your dose is too high. If there is a “brutal” come down, your dose is too high. What do you consider a “small” dose?

TrevorJ 4y ago
First off, do you are assuming that everyone reacts to drugs in the same way? I was taking 1/5th to 1/10th of a 'normal' dose. Secondly, if you do a few minutes of research online you will find that both issues (the high, and the comedown) is not at all an uncommon complaint. Ritalin is a CNS stimulant. With respect, you are being a bit too condescending relative to the amount of knowledge of the issue you posses.
- Avamander 4y ago
  They aren't assuming it about you specifically. It's just a common part of the process, with a common solution. It's likely a very valid question. If you're one of the few for whom it didn't work out, cool. But with equal respect, your anecdotal experience is not sufficient to call it "legal cocaine". Neither is it sufficient to make generilizations about how medical care of ADHD should be approached.
  - TrevorJ 4y ago
    1. Ritalin is a schedule V medication precisely because of the reasons I mentioned. 2. Five minutes of research online shows that my experience is not uncommon. Hell, reading the warning label from the pharmaceutical manufacturer is sufficient to make my point. 3. I am very pro-medication when it comes to treating ADHD, but I also believe many people are not sufficiently educated on the potential consequences of these medications in children.
    - dymk 4y ago
      Ritalin still isn't "cocaine", despite your negative experience with it, and you're going to do more harm to those who would benefit from it by spreading around FUD. Part of the process of treating ADHD is finding the right medication, and Ritalin works for most, and if it's working as intended, does not produce the "high" feeling that you got. If you're getting high off of it, it's not the drug for you, or you're on the wrong dose.
    - Avamander 4y ago
      > Ritalin is a schedule V medication precisely because of the reasons I mentioned. Doesn't make it okay to call it "legal cocaine". > Five minutes of research online shows that my experience is not uncommon. Hell, reading the warning label from the pharmaceutical manufacturer is sufficient to make my point. Obviously it's documented, but it doesn't make your point. As I already said, it's a thing that happens in the process when finding the correct dosage for an individual. Though for neurotypical people who don't have the disorder, there's no correct dosage and they'll experience what you did.
      - TrevorJ 4y ago
        I did not call it legal cocaine, though I did compare the two, and I stand by that statement. Ritalin's mechanism for action is extremely similar to cocaine - it even competes for the same binding sites on neurons. It's still a very useful therapeutic, and I strongly believe it should not be stigmatized. But parents absolutely do need to be educated about the sort of prescription drug this is. I liken this somewhat to the use of opioids for pain control after surgery: they are a fantastic tool that I would certainly not want to forego. But I am grateful that we've become more intentional about educating people on some of the specific dangers around their use so that patients can be more aware. I'd like to see the same thing happen around the use of strong stimulants in children.
- n8cpdx 4y ago
  What do you consider to be a “normal” dose? I’ve heard of people using 60+ mg of Ritalin and thinking that’s normal. Ritalin is a powerful stimulant at 5 or 10mg. You can get lower doses or different formulations - e.g. 5 or 10mg at extended release to last through the day. Extended release is usually preferred by doctors in part because you avoid the highs and lows. Regardless of what “normal” practice is, if you are getting high from methylphenidate, the dose is wrong, and if you can’t get therapeutic effects at a dose low enough to avoid a “brutal” comedown, you should be looking for alternatives.
  - TrevorJ 4y ago
    >if you can’t get therapeutic effects at a dose low enough to avoid a “brutal” comedown, you should be looking for alternatives. Agreed, this is why I no longer use it to treat my condition. The point I am making is that parents need to be aware of these potential side effects, because a child isn't necessarily in a position to articulate the fact that they are experiencing adverse effects like this. The medication is a CNS stimulant first and foremost. These effects aren't exactly rare.
  - smittywerben 4y ago
    > I’ve heard of people using 60+ mg of Ritalin and thinking that’s normal. Hello. That's me. I can sleep on that dose. Is that not normal?
daniel-cussen 4y ago
Yeah instead take half the dose with three- or four-hour intervals.

daniel-cussen 4y ago

Methylphenidate and cocaine are very very similar, but the nuance is different. It' like a bank account at -1¢ or +1¢, very similar accounts, how will they differ as time passes? In particular because cocaine is addictive whereas methylphenidate is not. Cocaine is euphoric while methylphenidate is much less, cocaine is arrogant while methylphenidate is just in-the-zone, just makes you want to work. Makes drudgery feel like a video game. There is also such a thing as an affine cocaine user, like Maradona, Iceberg Slim, and Sherlock Holmes (whose cocaine use was based on a real guy--a fucking freakish detective whose privacy Arthur Conan Doyle protected). These guys actually have an essentially healthy relationship with the drug, and yeah it's rare but it exists and they should be allowed to have it. Or narcoleptics, they're not going to get heart problems, let them. Or what? If Sherlock Holmes was on your child's abduction case, would you tell him no cocaine injections for the deduction trances? Nah man, you'd tell him go for it. That's legal cocaine. And the best detective of all time! In that case, would you still argue legal cocaine is bad for your child? Honestly I'm like, methylphenidate can be taken like in high school, for athletic competitions, tests, and writing essays...that's when I would have taken that or similar. Later on parties, that's medically acceptable, and is a medically-accepted partly-recreational use for a part of the supply, which is mostly intended for work. So one thing, daily methylphenidate reduces adult height about as much as artistic gymnastics, like two inches. Apart from that, like something milder is better...like coffee with whey protein, that's worth 5 milligrams of methylphenidate. There's vyvanse, that's a good one for kids. There's adderall, too strong I'd say, but typically there's adderall deficits and ritalin deficits, never heard of someone being helped by both. I would say I would have wanted the choice for myself as a kid.

TrevorJ 4y ago
It certainly can be addictive. "Warnings Ritalin may be habit-forming. Tell your doctor if you have a history of drug or alcohol addiction. Keep the medication where others cannot get to it. Misuse of Ritalin can cause addiction, overdose, or death. Tell your doctor if you have had problems with drug or alcohol abuse." https://www.drugs.com/ritalin.html https://www.drugs.com/ritalin.html
- 4y ago

smittywerben 4y ago

> I would be extremely cautious about prescribing this to anyone, especially children unless nearly every other kind of intervention has been explored. A well-trained psychiatrist can diagnose me in <10 minutes and ADHD meds are not that strong. I don't know what "intervention" means, but outgrowing ADHD is a common myth [1]. What you describe is not ADHD. I would try elsewhere. Sorry. [1] https://chadd.org/about-adhd/myths-and-misunderstandings/ https://chadd.org/about-adhd/myths-and-misunderstandings/

TrevorJ 4y ago
I don't claim that people outgrow ADHD, nor do I believe that to be the case. There are a number of other therapeutic drugs for ADHD beyond Ritalin, and there are other useful behavioral interventions including diet, exercise, time outdoors, cognitive therapies etc. That is what I mean by 'interventions'. I'm trying, probably somewhat poorly, to make the point that there are a lot of potentially useful things to try in terms of managing ADHD beyond Ritalin (though that can be a very useful tool for some).