9 ms·

Sure, this is a sweet little hit of nostalgia -- but it's also symptomatic of just how far Apple's come (back) with the Mac, and why. It's clear that we're way,

by Doches 4y ago

Sure, this is a sweet little hit of nostalgia -- but it's also symptomatic of just how far Apple's come (back) with the Mac, and why. It's clear that we're way, way over the doldrums of the butterfly keyboard, abandoned Mac Pro, "continues to be a product in our line-up" years. Little things like this, little acknowledgements of the past and the Mac community, suggest to me why: the people in charge of the Mac are now people who _grew up with it_, who love it, and who have that same nostalgia as (some) of us outside Apple. They want the Mac to be great, too! If this was strictly playing on nostalgia it would have been a bit PR feature, or at least called out in WWDC. But instead it's just dropped in as an easter egg. Such a great sign.

pjmlp 4y ago
I bet the departure of a certain person is directly related to the fact we can have those good things back.
- webwielder2 4y ago
  Yep, Steve Jobs famously banned Easter eggs and dismantled the icon garden at 1 Infinite Loop.
  - code_biologist 4y ago
    I think he meant Jony Ive, who absolutely got out of hand without Steve.
    - intothemild 4y ago
      It's astonishing, the change that's happened since Ive has left.
      - chess_buster 4y ago
        True.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Jony Ive, as a fellow HNer replied.
pupppet 4y ago
I too like the current state of Mac development, but this is also a sign of how sterile the company has become when any hint of personality needs to be drawn from Apple's past.
- joenot443 4y ago
  I think Apple still exhibits lots of personality and playfulness, maybe just not as much in their desktop lineup. I don't really use them much, but I think the Memojis are pretty charming and thoughtful.
- duxup 4y ago
  Hint of personality is still a bucket load more than I get elsewhere.
grishka 4y ago
> the people in charge of the Mac are now people who _grew up with it_, who love it, and who have that same nostalgia as (some) of us outside Apple. So then how does one explain the unending UI regressions with every single major update? This whole system preferences thing for example? The terrible, terrible toolbars combined with window titles? The borderless buttons (with borders being an accessibility feature)? The utter disregard of the pixel grid? Everything else slowly becoming ever more un-desktop?
- selectodude 4y ago
  > This whole system preferences thing for example Do you remember what the battery icon in System Preferences looked like in the first beta of Mac OS 12? It's a beta. Give it some time. It's not out yet.
  - grishka 4y ago
    I'm very doubtful that by the time it reaches release, they'll bring back the icon grid and the sensible layouts (instead of those stupid iOS-like lists) in the panes themselves.
    - danaris 4y ago
      Frankly, the icon grid was arranged somewhat arbitrarily to begin with. I'd be quite happy to have a largely-alphabetical list, making it much easier to actually find the specific preference pane I'm looking for.
      - grishka 4y ago
        There used to be labeled categories that made sense. Then they removed the labels, and then they merged some of the categories.
        dividedbyzero 4y ago
        I've not tried out Ventura myself yet, but from the footage I've seen, the new settings app seems like an upgrade to me. I've never really found my way around the icon grid, none of the iterations since Leopard worked well for me (and I've probably used all of them), so good riddance, happy to see them they try something new. Those lists may break some people's muscle memory, but I'm way faster skimming through a list than finding things in a more or less arbitrary 2d layout. And besides, it's looks pretty similar to iOS, and if that's executed well, then I should be able to share muscle memory between iOS and macOS, like with Control Center (which is neat).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
systemvoltage 4y ago
There are currently things like this that we can stop from going to doom. But we won't. It will be 2030 when we'll learn, yep, we were right. Lack of critical thinking, patting too much on the back of ourselves and inability to make tough decisions is a general malaise in Big Tech. When companies are too focused on other things and not enough on the fundamentals, this is what happens.

by Doches 4y ago

pjmlp 4y ago

I bet the departure of a certain person is directly related to the fact we can have those good things back.

webwielder2 4y ago
Yep, Steve Jobs famously banned Easter eggs and dismantled the icon garden at 1 Infinite Loop.
- code_biologist 4y ago
  I think he meant Jony Ive, who absolutely got out of hand without Steve.
  - intothemild 4y ago
    It's astonishing, the change that's happened since Ive has left.
    - chess_buster 4y ago
      True.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Jony Ive, as a fellow HNer replied.

pupppet 4y ago

I too like the current state of Mac development, but this is also a sign of how sterile the company has become when any hint of personality needs to be drawn from Apple's past.

joenot443 4y ago
I think Apple still exhibits lots of personality and playfulness, maybe just not as much in their desktop lineup. I don't really use them much, but I think the Memojis are pretty charming and thoughtful.
duxup 4y ago
Hint of personality is still a bucket load more than I get elsewhere.

grishka 4y ago

> the people in charge of the Mac are now people who _grew up with it_, who love it, and who have that same nostalgia as (some) of us outside Apple. So then how does one explain the unending UI regressions with every single major update? This whole system preferences thing for example? The terrible, terrible toolbars combined with window titles? The borderless buttons (with borders being an accessibility feature)? The utter disregard of the pixel grid? Everything else slowly becoming ever more un-desktop?

selectodude 4y ago
> This whole system preferences thing for example Do you remember what the battery icon in System Preferences looked like in the first beta of Mac OS 12? It's a beta. Give it some time. It's not out yet.
- grishka 4y ago
  I'm very doubtful that by the time it reaches release, they'll bring back the icon grid and the sensible layouts (instead of those stupid iOS-like lists) in the panes themselves.
  - danaris 4y ago
    Frankly, the icon grid was arranged somewhat arbitrarily to begin with. I'd be quite happy to have a largely-alphabetical list, making it much easier to actually find the specific preference pane I'm looking for.
    - grishka 4y ago
      There used to be labeled categories that made sense. Then they removed the labels, and then they merged some of the categories.
      - dividedbyzero 4y ago
        I've not tried out Ventura myself yet, but from the footage I've seen, the new settings app seems like an upgrade to me. I've never really found my way around the icon grid, none of the iterations since Leopard worked well for me (and I've probably used all of them), so good riddance, happy to see them they try something new. Those lists may break some people's muscle memory, but I'm way faster skimming through a list than finding things in a more or less arbitrary 2d layout. And besides, it's looks pretty similar to iOS, and if that's executed well, then I should be able to share muscle memory between iOS and macOS, like with Control Center (which is neat).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

systemvoltage 4y ago

There are currently things like this that we can stop from going to doom. But we won't. It will be 2030 when we'll learn, yep, we were right. Lack of critical thinking, patting too much on the back of ourselves and inability to make tough decisions is a general malaise in Big Tech. When companies are too focused on other things and not enough on the fundamentals, this is what happens.