5 ms·

It's more horrifying to me that HN has turned into a kind of place where people will confidently assert their judgment something they have no knowledge about.

It's more horrifying to me that HN has turned into a kind of place where people will confidently assert their judgment something they have no knowledge about. My son has ADHD. There are other ADHD cases in the family, so we knew that could be the case with him, but we waited until he was in middle school to even try to check, because we didn't want him to "depend on drugs", as the trope goes. We got the diagnosis from two different doctors, to be absolutely sure. The medication makes a stunning difference, and it has nothing to do with complacency at all. It has to do with being able to focus better and to overcome an obstacle that people like me don't have. And the medication shouldn't be the only thing to use for ADHD. It should be used as a tool to help, but that's just the start. It's important for the parents to work with a psychologist, for two reasons: 1) to help the child develop their own tools and strategies to overcome the cons of ADHD, and 2) to help the parents understand the child better. Like I said, I don't have ADHD. The things my son has to struggle with are often difficult for me to understand and identify with. The medication helps so he doesn't have to struggle as hard. And he's less "complacent" than ever, and that's a good thing. What you're saying is the equivalent of "it's horrifying to me that so many children are forced to wear glasses so they become more complacent in school".

greatpostman 4y ago
speedmagnet 4y ago
In my opinion it's normal for some kids or people to be distracted easily or have more energy than others. They require more attention. Also a child's brain is not fully developed. Why do we expect all kids to be great at focusing? Do you think the focus is worth the reported short and long-term side effects[0]? [0] https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=aff45863-ffe1-4d4f-8acf-c7081512a6c0&audience=consumer#S5.1 https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=aff...
- Avamander 4y ago
  It's not simply being "more distracted", that's oversimplification to the extent of belittling people who have the disorder. Fully developed or not, ADHD doesn't disappear. Neither does it change if someone wants fully working executive functioning or control over their "train of thought". The "focus" is worth it, especially if you make a fair comparison with those that weren't so lucky to get help.
- galoisgirl 4y ago
  Errr okay...That's like your uninformed opinion, bro.
memish 4y ago
Glasses are not drugs. That's not at all equivalent. These drugs are altering brain chemistry and one's natural state so they fit into the unnatural environment that is school. It's horrifying to me that people are doing mental gymnastics to defend drugging kids who don't want to sit at a desk for hours every day memorizing useless information. If I was a kid today I'd fit the qualifications and be drugged to better fit into that environment. It's a crime that future generations will be rightly horrified by. Not unlike how we are starting to be horrified by the treatment of animals in factory farms. We're not treating these kids much better.
- dymk 4y ago
  Please read up on the diagnostic criteria for ADHD (it's not just "can't sit down"!), and understand that not everybody is born with a brain chemistry that serves them well in life. People with ADHD are affected by it even when they're not in school. Lucky for those with ADHD, most respond to medication very effectively.
- CodeMage 4y ago
  Again, this is not about wanting to sit at a desk for hours every day. He's perfectly content to sit at a desk for hours every day, in front of his computer, and yet he'll have the same problems focusing on most things. Yes, the medication alters brain chemistry and one's "natural state". Do you honestly think that we have the science to realize that it alters brain chemistry, but we don't have the science to realize that some brain chemistries are drastically different from others? As for the whole "natural state" thing, let's not indulge in appeals to nature here. I forgot where I heard "dog poop and arsenic are both found in nature, but you wouldn't eat either", but it stuck with me. Schizophrenia is a "natural state" for some people. So is depression, or autism. Should we just leave everyone in their "natural state", because it's sacred for some reason? Hence my comment about glasses: some people are naturally short-sighted, too, but they enjoy being able to see better. Sure, school is an unnatural environment. Civilization is mostly an unnatural environment, too. What infuriates me, though, is that people who haven't had to walk in my son's shoes -- or mine, but his are more important -- have the audacity to judge from their position of ignorance and declare all the effort and care we went through "a crime that future generations will be rightly horrified by".
TrevorJ 4y ago
Two things can be true at the same time. Some kids truly do have a disorder that benefits from medication. Some kids are prescribed medication they don't need simply so they are able to do something that no child should reasonable be expect to do: sit in a chair and listen to people talk at them for 8+ hours a day. One truth does not preclude the other.
- thomastjeffery 4y ago
  I sat at a desk for 8+ hours a day, then I proceeded to sit at a desk for another 2-4 hours. I didn't have a singular issue with sitting at a desk. I could - and in fact did - sit at a desk from sun up to sun down 5 days a week without complaint. Did I resent it? Yes. Do I think schooling should have been done differently? Yes. Could doing school differently have cured my ADHD symptoms? No. Absolutely not. Living with undiagnosed ADHD is hell, whether you are a child or an adult.
- CodeMage 4y ago
  That's true. And it's also true that ADHD is overdiagnosed and overtreated, and the rate is non-negligible. That is a problem that both the public and the medical community are aware of. I agree with maintaining awareness of that, but I strongly disagree with going to the extremes and stigmatizing ADHD medication and everyone involved. Look at the comment I objected to. Does it read like a rational, polite way to maintain awareness of that problem? Or does it look like a knee-jerk judgment that's parroting a popular trope?
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    I wrote that it is horrifying so many children are drugged to be more complacent in school. I saw you objecting to that and assumed I'd need to come back and support the idea that ADHD is over diagnosed and over medicated (e.g. the diagnoses have about doubled in the past couple decades in the US and are substantially higher than in European countries and US pharmaceuticals have a history of being over prescribed). Yet now I find that you are already aware ADHD is overdiagnosed and overtreated - so what exactly are you objecting to in my original comment? You don't think it's horrifying that parents, teachers, and doctors are basically conspiring to drug kids to keep them from acting up in schools? School is a pretty boring and restrictive place. Children are notoriously poor at dealing with boring things and young boys in particular are particularly prone to the kind of misbehavior that will get them in trouble and drugged.

greatpostman 4y ago

speedmagnet 4y ago

In my opinion it's normal for some kids or people to be distracted easily or have more energy than others. They require more attention. Also a child's brain is not fully developed. Why do we expect all kids to be great at focusing? Do you think the focus is worth the reported short and long-term side effects[0]? [0] https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=aff45863-ffe1-4d4f-8acf-c7081512a6c0&audience=consumer#S5.1 https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=aff...

Avamander 4y ago
It's not simply being "more distracted", that's oversimplification to the extent of belittling people who have the disorder. Fully developed or not, ADHD doesn't disappear. Neither does it change if someone wants fully working executive functioning or control over their "train of thought". The "focus" is worth it, especially if you make a fair comparison with those that weren't so lucky to get help.
galoisgirl 4y ago
Errr okay...That's like your uninformed opinion, bro.

memish 4y ago

Glasses are not drugs. That's not at all equivalent. These drugs are altering brain chemistry and one's natural state so they fit into the unnatural environment that is school. It's horrifying to me that people are doing mental gymnastics to defend drugging kids who don't want to sit at a desk for hours every day memorizing useless information. If I was a kid today I'd fit the qualifications and be drugged to better fit into that environment. It's a crime that future generations will be rightly horrified by. Not unlike how we are starting to be horrified by the treatment of animals in factory farms. We're not treating these kids much better.

dymk 4y ago
Please read up on the diagnostic criteria for ADHD (it's not just "can't sit down"!), and understand that not everybody is born with a brain chemistry that serves them well in life. People with ADHD are affected by it even when they're not in school. Lucky for those with ADHD, most respond to medication very effectively.
CodeMage 4y ago
Again, this is not about wanting to sit at a desk for hours every day. He's perfectly content to sit at a desk for hours every day, in front of his computer, and yet he'll have the same problems focusing on most things. Yes, the medication alters brain chemistry and one's "natural state". Do you honestly think that we have the science to realize that it alters brain chemistry, but we don't have the science to realize that some brain chemistries are drastically different from others? As for the whole "natural state" thing, let's not indulge in appeals to nature here. I forgot where I heard "dog poop and arsenic are both found in nature, but you wouldn't eat either", but it stuck with me. Schizophrenia is a "natural state" for some people. So is depression, or autism. Should we just leave everyone in their "natural state", because it's sacred for some reason? Hence my comment about glasses: some people are naturally short-sighted, too, but they enjoy being able to see better. Sure, school is an unnatural environment. Civilization is mostly an unnatural environment, too. What infuriates me, though, is that people who haven't had to walk in my son's shoes -- or mine, but his are more important -- have the audacity to judge from their position of ignorance and declare all the effort and care we went through "a crime that future generations will be rightly horrified by".

TrevorJ 4y ago

Two things can be true at the same time. Some kids truly do have a disorder that benefits from medication. Some kids are prescribed medication they don't need simply so they are able to do something that no child should reasonable be expect to do: sit in a chair and listen to people talk at them for 8+ hours a day. One truth does not preclude the other.

thomastjeffery 4y ago
I sat at a desk for 8+ hours a day, then I proceeded to sit at a desk for another 2-4 hours. I didn't have a singular issue with sitting at a desk. I could - and in fact did - sit at a desk from sun up to sun down 5 days a week without complaint. Did I resent it? Yes. Do I think schooling should have been done differently? Yes. Could doing school differently have cured my ADHD symptoms? No. Absolutely not. Living with undiagnosed ADHD is hell, whether you are a child or an adult.
CodeMage 4y ago
That's true. And it's also true that ADHD is overdiagnosed and overtreated, and the rate is non-negligible. That is a problem that both the public and the medical community are aware of. I agree with maintaining awareness of that, but I strongly disagree with going to the extremes and stigmatizing ADHD medication and everyone involved. Look at the comment I objected to. Does it read like a rational, polite way to maintain awareness of that problem? Or does it look like a knee-jerk judgment that's parroting a popular trope?
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  I wrote that it is horrifying so many children are drugged to be more complacent in school. I saw you objecting to that and assumed I'd need to come back and support the idea that ADHD is over diagnosed and over medicated (e.g. the diagnoses have about doubled in the past couple decades in the US and are substantially higher than in European countries and US pharmaceuticals have a history of being over prescribed). Yet now I find that you are already aware ADHD is overdiagnosed and overtreated - so what exactly are you objecting to in my original comment? You don't think it's horrifying that parents, teachers, and doctors are basically conspiring to drug kids to keep them from acting up in schools? School is a pretty boring and restrictive place. Children are notoriously poor at dealing with boring things and young boys in particular are particularly prone to the kind of misbehavior that will get them in trouble and drugged.