5 ms·

Why is it either PGA or LIV? Why can't a golf player play both tours?

by LittlePeter 4y ago

harveywi 4y ago
In parallel? That would be the FPGA.
opencl 4y ago
Because PGA won't let them.
theluketaylor 4y ago
The PGA Tour has a rule that members need permission to play in events not sanctioned by the PGA Tour. That rule goes all the way back to the founding of the tour, since the entire value is predicated on having a showcase of the best golfers all in one event. Before the tour only the best of the best professional golfers made money on exhibitions and other events, but it was a hard living. The tour consolidated all the talent and let everyone make some good money. If the PGA Tour had allowed members to go play in LIV events there would be many other rival tours springing up, further diluting the PGA Tour product. The TV contracts and event sponsorship deals all have strength of field clauses the tour has to maintain to keep the money flowing, so there was never going to be a world where the tour said yes to players asking for permission to play LIV events.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  There a are real questions about if the non-compete clause that the PGA (a non-profit) is trying to enforce on it's independent contractors is legal. If those legal challenges go through, then yes, we absolutely could end up in a world where PGA has to say yes to allowing competition in other tours.
  - theluketaylor 4y ago
    That's true and I think the inevitable court cases will be interesting. I'm sure the Tour's argument will be members freely join and agree to the rules and there is a mechanism for players to vote to change the rules if a critical mass of them decide. A professional golfer doesn't have to join the PGA Tour, there are other tours like DP World (formerly European Tour) and the Asia Tour. How well that will work in front of a judge is a real question.
- MR4D 4y ago
  Sure sounds like a monopoly to me!
- frumper 4y ago
  PGA mission statement: "The mission of The PGA of America is to promote enjoyment and involvement in golf among the general public, as well as to contribute to the sport’s growth by providing services to golf Professionals and the industry. The PGA seeks to accomplish this mission by enhancing the skills of PGA Professionals and expanding playing opportunities for the general public, employers and manufacturers. Through these efforts, The PGA elevates the standards of The PGA Professional’s vocation, enhances the economic well-being of the individual PGA member, stimulates interest in the game of golf and promotes the overall vitality of the game." Doesn't sound like it's their mission would be harmed by competing tournaments. After all, the majors aren't operated by the PGA and they co-exist just fine.
  - theluketaylor 4y ago
    The PGA of America and the PGA Tour are different organizations. The PGA of America used to control the PGA Tour, but they split a long time ago, like back in the 60s I think. The PGA Tour mission statement is very different: "By showcasing golf's greatest players, we engage, inspire and positively impact our fans, partners and communities worldwide." Hard to showcase the greatest golfers if they are off playing in different events.
    - frumper 4y ago
      Thanks for that explanation, but I’d disagree that it’s hard to showcase the greatest golfers if they also play in different events. It’s harder to showcase them if they only play in different events because you ban them from yours.
      - theluketaylor 4y ago
        I'm no great lover of the tour since I find 72 hole stroke play tournaments every single weekend pretty boring, but I do get the position they are in. The tour has contractual responsibilities to their tournament sponsors and TV deals that specify a certain strength of field (typically calculated by official world golf ranking). If they have members asking to play in competing league events their strength of field drops and the money dries up, making it hard to draw the top players in the world. For now LIV golf events don't have OWGR points, but that could easily change. The tour normally grants requests to play in other events, like world players wanting to compete in their national open or host a charity tournament. Lots of European players maintain status on both PGA Tour and DP World Tour (formally the European Tour) and a few guys have won both money lists in the a single year. There are plenty of co-sanctioned events between both tours, even some not run by the tours like the majors. The difference here is an organized league of multiple events wants to poach players without any formal agreement with the tour about strength of field and cross-competing. Suspending people who play in LIV events was really the only option the tour had.
brianwawok 4y ago
Because it would weaken their monopoly of course.
cyanydeez 4y ago
ALM: America Loves Monopolies

Why is it either PGA or LIV? Why can't a golf player play both tours?

harveywi 4y ago

In parallel? That would be the FPGA.

opencl 4y ago

Because PGA won't let them.

theluketaylor 4y ago

The PGA Tour has a rule that members need permission to play in events not sanctioned by the PGA Tour. That rule goes all the way back to the founding of the tour, since the entire value is predicated on having a showcase of the best golfers all in one event. Before the tour only the best of the best professional golfers made money on exhibitions and other events, but it was a hard living. The tour consolidated all the talent and let everyone make some good money. If the PGA Tour had allowed members to go play in LIV events there would be many other rival tours springing up, further diluting the PGA Tour product. The TV contracts and event sponsorship deals all have strength of field clauses the tour has to maintain to keep the money flowing, so there was never going to be a world where the tour said yes to players asking for permission to play LIV events.

shkkmo 4y ago
There a are real questions about if the non-compete clause that the PGA (a non-profit) is trying to enforce on it's independent contractors is legal. If those legal challenges go through, then yes, we absolutely could end up in a world where PGA has to say yes to allowing competition in other tours.
- theluketaylor 4y ago
  That's true and I think the inevitable court cases will be interesting. I'm sure the Tour's argument will be members freely join and agree to the rules and there is a mechanism for players to vote to change the rules if a critical mass of them decide. A professional golfer doesn't have to join the PGA Tour, there are other tours like DP World (formerly European Tour) and the Asia Tour. How well that will work in front of a judge is a real question.
MR4D 4y ago
Sure sounds like a monopoly to me!
frumper 4y ago
PGA mission statement: "The mission of The PGA of America is to promote enjoyment and involvement in golf among the general public, as well as to contribute to the sport’s growth by providing services to golf Professionals and the industry. The PGA seeks to accomplish this mission by enhancing the skills of PGA Professionals and expanding playing opportunities for the general public, employers and manufacturers. Through these efforts, The PGA elevates the standards of The PGA Professional’s vocation, enhances the economic well-being of the individual PGA member, stimulates interest in the game of golf and promotes the overall vitality of the game." Doesn't sound like it's their mission would be harmed by competing tournaments. After all, the majors aren't operated by the PGA and they co-exist just fine.
- theluketaylor 4y ago
  The PGA of America and the PGA Tour are different organizations. The PGA of America used to control the PGA Tour, but they split a long time ago, like back in the 60s I think. The PGA Tour mission statement is very different: "By showcasing golf's greatest players, we engage, inspire and positively impact our fans, partners and communities worldwide." Hard to showcase the greatest golfers if they are off playing in different events.
  - frumper 4y ago
    Thanks for that explanation, but I’d disagree that it’s hard to showcase the greatest golfers if they also play in different events. It’s harder to showcase them if they only play in different events because you ban them from yours.
    - theluketaylor 4y ago
      I'm no great lover of the tour since I find 72 hole stroke play tournaments every single weekend pretty boring, but I do get the position they are in. The tour has contractual responsibilities to their tournament sponsors and TV deals that specify a certain strength of field (typically calculated by official world golf ranking). If they have members asking to play in competing league events their strength of field drops and the money dries up, making it hard to draw the top players in the world. For now LIV golf events don't have OWGR points, but that could easily change. The tour normally grants requests to play in other events, like world players wanting to compete in their national open or host a charity tournament. Lots of European players maintain status on both PGA Tour and DP World Tour (formally the European Tour) and a few guys have won both money lists in the a single year. There are plenty of co-sanctioned events between both tours, even some not run by the tours like the majors. The difference here is an organized league of multiple events wants to poach players without any formal agreement with the tour about strength of field and cross-competing. Suspending people who play in LIV events was really the only option the tour had.

brianwawok 4y ago

Because it would weaken their monopoly of course.

cyanydeez 4y ago

ALM: America Loves Monopolies