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> A few years later, an unrepresentative (to scotland) tory government takes it from us anyway because they were frightened of nigel farage and some middle engl

> A few years later, an unrepresentative (to scotland) tory government takes it from us anyway because they were frightened of nigel farage and some middle englanders don't like hearing polish in their local tescos. You want a referendum because other people you disagree with were given a referendum that you then lost? And you paint this as "tory government takes it from us"? I also note that millions voted, it'd be hard for them all to be middle Englanders. I just wonder why you need to paint it so far from reality and in a way that only suits you?

cyberpunk 4y ago
It's not quite as straightforward as that. Scotland overwhelmingly voted remain. Scotland also is not represented by the Tory government in Westminster. These are constitutional issues, and the people should be given the choice if they want this to continue or not. I don't think being asked to chose is undemocratic, it's /exactly/ democracy. Let the people decide.
- brigandish 4y ago
  > Scotland overwhelmingly voted remain. Scotland also is not represented by the Tory government in Westminster. Scotland did not get a vote, and there are Scottish Tories, and there are members of parliament from all the regions of Scotland. Scottish people are represented better than English people in all respects. > These are constitutional issues, and the people should be given the choice if they want this to continue or not. I agree, I voted in the last referendum and I will vote in the next. I disagree with the behaviour of the nationalists so I will vote against them. > I don't think being asked to chose is undemocratic, it's /exactly/ democracy. Let the people decide. Do you think that politicians making blatant lies to the public is democratic? I'm not asking if it happens or is likely or an unfortunate aspect of politics, I'm asking if you think it should be part of the way things are actually done and if the voters should overlook it - is it democratic?
dijit 4y ago
secession from a union that is not representing your interests is valid. this was the case for brexit, why is it different for scotland?
- brigandish 4y ago
  I wrote that I voted for independence right at the top of the thread, did you miss that?
ncmncm 4y ago
Reasons for wanting a referendum are none of your business. It suffices to say they want one. If it fails, then not enough wanted to leave. That is all. When they failed to do Brexit for years running, and it turned out the arguments for were lies, there should have been another Brexit vote. It would have failed, and a great deal of trouble would be saved.
- brigandish 4y ago
  It's strange that I was allowed to vote in the last one if it's none of my business. > they want one. Polls consistently show less than 50%. Perhaps the "they" you meant is the SNP?
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    The point is you don't know until the vote how it would turn out. If you did know, there would be no need for the vote. You don't know why the overwhelming majority of them voted as they did. Maybe most of them can't be said to know. It suffices that they voted.
    - brigandish 4y ago
      I think you're changing the point. Why is it none of my business?
      - ncmncm 4y ago
        It is nobody's business. A vote is a vote.
        brigandish 4y ago
        If I get to vote then it is my business, else I wouldn't or shouldn't get a vote.
        ncmncm 4y ago

cyberpunk 4y ago

It's not quite as straightforward as that. Scotland overwhelmingly voted remain. Scotland also is not represented by the Tory government in Westminster. These are constitutional issues, and the people should be given the choice if they want this to continue or not. I don't think being asked to chose is undemocratic, it's /exactly/ democracy. Let the people decide.

brigandish 4y ago
> Scotland overwhelmingly voted remain. Scotland also is not represented by the Tory government in Westminster. Scotland did not get a vote, and there are Scottish Tories, and there are members of parliament from all the regions of Scotland. Scottish people are represented better than English people in all respects. > These are constitutional issues, and the people should be given the choice if they want this to continue or not. I agree, I voted in the last referendum and I will vote in the next. I disagree with the behaviour of the nationalists so I will vote against them. > I don't think being asked to chose is undemocratic, it's /exactly/ democracy. Let the people decide. Do you think that politicians making blatant lies to the public is democratic? I'm not asking if it happens or is likely or an unfortunate aspect of politics, I'm asking if you think it should be part of the way things are actually done and if the voters should overlook it - is it democratic?

dijit 4y ago

secession from a union that is not representing your interests is valid. this was the case for brexit, why is it different for scotland?

brigandish 4y ago
I wrote that I voted for independence right at the top of the thread, did you miss that?

ncmncm 4y ago

Reasons for wanting a referendum are none of your business. It suffices to say they want one. If it fails, then not enough wanted to leave. That is all. When they failed to do Brexit for years running, and it turned out the arguments for were lies, there should have been another Brexit vote. It would have failed, and a great deal of trouble would be saved.

brigandish 4y ago
It's strange that I was allowed to vote in the last one if it's none of my business. > they want one. Polls consistently show less than 50%. Perhaps the "they" you meant is the SNP?
- ncmncm 4y ago
  The point is you don't know until the vote how it would turn out. If you did know, there would be no need for the vote. You don't know why the overwhelming majority of them voted as they did. Maybe most of them can't be said to know. It suffices that they voted.
  - brigandish 4y ago
    I think you're changing the point. Why is it none of my business?
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      It is nobody's business. A vote is a vote.
      - brigandish 4y ago
        If I get to vote then it is my business, else I wouldn't or shouldn't get a vote.
        ncmncm 4y ago