3 ms·

Multiple european countries have referendums multiple times per year, on topics whose effects are much harder to undo (like education plans).

brigandish 4y ago
I can't say that many, including myself, would agree that education plans are on the same level as independence. But maybe I'm wrong. How often are independence referenda held in Europe?
- AshamedCaptain 4y ago
  > I can't say that many, including myself, would agree that education plans are on the same level as independence. Perhaps not (your choice), but education plans definitely influence _at least_ a generation -- and they are changed almost on every change of legislative color without either a public vote or otherwise much fanfare. This stuff eventually has a much more profound impact than independence (for starters, education plans can and do influence which % of the population is in favor of such independence; but they can also influence how much the culture diverges between the two "countries", e.g. by promoting regional languages). And this is just an example. Additional devolutions also have an impact that is at least on the same level, and again usually passes without much fanfare either. > But maybe I'm wrong. How often are independence referenda held in Europe? We had at least 2-3 last decade? And this entire thread is about another one...
  - brigandish 4y ago
    > We had at least 2-3 last decade? Which countries? I note 4 if Ukraine is part of Europe, but that would mean you have to recognise Crimea's referendum as legal and valid. Not a hill I'd die on. Catalunya's and Venice's were not recognised by Spain or Italy, so we're left with Scotland's. Unless there were others?
    - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
      Nouvelle-Calédonie/Kanak (3 times in the last decade), Scotland, Catalonia are the ones I had in mind, thus the 2-3 . I was not aware of Venice's one, so make that 2-4. I am sure there are others, considering my area of knowledge is limited to western european countries.
      - brigandish 4y ago
        I mentioned Catalonia's, it was not legitimate or recognised by Spain. I sympathise with their movement but it's not relevant here, anymore than if I hold a vote in my bedroom to set up my own state. Nouvelle-Calédonie is in the Pacific, not Europe, but I'll give you that one because it makes your argument look like a giant stretch. > I am sure there are others Forgive me, but are you expecting me to take you seriously if you can't be bothered to look it up? I could characterise my time on HN as wasting time, but I don't engage on here for a total waste of my time. Please, give me and everyone else here more respect than that and put in some effort, even if you don't have the knowledge or expertise or insight. At least that would be understandable and forgivable.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

brigandish 4y ago

I can't say that many, including myself, would agree that education plans are on the same level as independence. But maybe I'm wrong. How often are independence referenda held in Europe?

AshamedCaptain 4y ago
> I can't say that many, including myself, would agree that education plans are on the same level as independence. Perhaps not (your choice), but education plans definitely influence _at least_ a generation -- and they are changed almost on every change of legislative color without either a public vote or otherwise much fanfare. This stuff eventually has a much more profound impact than independence (for starters, education plans can and do influence which % of the population is in favor of such independence; but they can also influence how much the culture diverges between the two "countries", e.g. by promoting regional languages). And this is just an example. Additional devolutions also have an impact that is at least on the same level, and again usually passes without much fanfare either. > But maybe I'm wrong. How often are independence referenda held in Europe? We had at least 2-3 last decade? And this entire thread is about another one...
- brigandish 4y ago
  > We had at least 2-3 last decade? Which countries? I note 4 if Ukraine is part of Europe, but that would mean you have to recognise Crimea's referendum as legal and valid. Not a hill I'd die on. Catalunya's and Venice's were not recognised by Spain or Italy, so we're left with Scotland's. Unless there were others?
  - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
    Nouvelle-Calédonie/Kanak (3 times in the last decade), Scotland, Catalonia are the ones I had in mind, thus the 2-3 . I was not aware of Venice's one, so make that 2-4. I am sure there are others, considering my area of knowledge is limited to western european countries.
    - brigandish 4y ago
      I mentioned Catalonia's, it was not legitimate or recognised by Spain. I sympathise with their movement but it's not relevant here, anymore than if I hold a vote in my bedroom to set up my own state. Nouvelle-Calédonie is in the Pacific, not Europe, but I'll give you that one because it makes your argument look like a giant stretch. > I am sure there are others Forgive me, but are you expecting me to take you seriously if you can't be bothered to look it up? I could characterise my time on HN as wasting time, but I don't engage on here for a total waste of my time. Please, give me and everyone else here more respect than that and put in some effort, even if you don't have the knowledge or expertise or insight. At least that would be understandable and forgivable.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]