4 ms·

How often do you think independence referenda should be held?

synu 4y ago
When it’s a close vote and circumstances are changing rapidly, I’d say pretty often. Maybe every two or three years until some kind of consensus emerges? It seems like an important topic you wouldn’t want to suppress except for once every sixty years or whatever, and might force some negotiation to get to a better place whether through independence or reconciliation. This is assuming the role of the government here is to track what the people want and execute their will. Maybe it’s different in the UK (again, I don’t live there and I know it’s a complicated system).
- jfk13 4y ago
  > When it’s a close vote and circumstances are changing rapidly, I’d say pretty often And if you hold the vote every 2-3 years, and the result alternates between Yes and No, at what point will you say "stop, this is a final decision"?
  - synu 4y ago
    Several inconclusive outcomes don't add up to one conclusive one.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    This is the democracy version of p-hacking.
adrianN 4y ago
About as often as a significant part of the population wants to hold them.
- joking 4y ago
  and the same for a rejoining referendum?
  - adrianN 4y ago
    The same for any referendum.
- brigandish 4y ago
  52%? 66%? Under 50%? What is significant here?
  - synu 4y ago
    It would match the % required to pass the referendum. So if 65% is required, for example, and it seems like 65% might support it, then you should find out. What % is required to pass a binding referendum in the UK? What was required to determine the will of the people for Brexit?
  - adrianN 4y ago
    You could do it for example like so: First you give volunteers limited time to collect a relatively small number of signatures, say about 1% of the voters in half a year, to start the process. If that is successful you transfer responsibility to the government and have the government determine whether at least 20% of the population is interested. If so, you hold the referendum.
stoneman24 4y ago
Whenever the people vote for it. The SNP (and Greens) were crystal clear in their manifestos in the last elections and people voted for it. In general, people hope that the politicians should do what they said that they would. With Brexit and Tory policies over 10 years, it seems reasonable to have the vote. I would prefer one vote to start the process and final confirmation vote once the exact deal is established. Always a good idea to know exactly what is being offered before taking the deal (total opposite of Brexit) [scot living in Scotland]
eyko 4y ago
How often do you think the entire government of a state should change? Some would argue every 4-5 years makes it impossible to have politicians with long term thinking. Why not have elections once every generation?
- zarzavat 4y ago
  If Scotland votes for independence should they hold a referendum every 4-5 years on rejoining the UK?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Sure, if they want to. UK should also feel free to say “eh nah” in that case.
    - blackoil 4y ago
      Not so simple, UK will also have referendums on will they allow Scotland to join or kick them out. Also by nature of politics, the two referendums will not align so people would still be unhappy.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    If enough people want it, then of course? Why is this even a question? It is a democratic country last time I checked, if the chosen government representing the people decides that a referendum is what the public want....it should be held regardless of how much time has elapsed.
smcl 4y ago
Whenever there's a seismic enough event like, I dunno, leaving the European Union. That was a fairly effective scare-tactic used by the No campaign - you'll kicked out of the EU, you won't actually meet the criteria! These were pretty huge points that spooked a lot of people into not voting or voting No.
- brigandish 4y ago
  It's not really seismic though, is it? Both options in each referendum were reasonable, there's plenty of countries in the EU and plenty out that do well, plenty have left the Britain and done well, those in the UK are doing fine. I didn't like the scare tactics in either campaign on either side (though the status quo sides' in each were notably more on the scare side). I see it as an excuse from those who would take any excuse they can.
  - smcl 4y ago
    Yes it really is seismic, it is a huge stretch to claim it was anything less than that (otherwise it wouldn't have been such a big issue to threaten the Yes vote with). And furthermore as a Scot living in the EU, believe me it is not simply an "excuse".
    - brigandish 4y ago
      > as a Scot living in the EU, believe me it is not simply an "excuse" Your living situation does not obviate the SNP's pledge. > Yes it really is seismic, My living situation is to live in a region with actual earthquakes, big ones at times too. A change of a trade deal is not in the same universe, let alone world, of effect upon people's daily lives or political events as that. You need to calm yourself down and get some perspective. If this referendum comes to pass I'll move back to give my vote against it (unless I get my chance from here). That's how much I'm against it, and keep in mind, I voted for independence the first time. It's slimy and I won't have it. Edit: I accidentally left part of the responder above's comment that I pasted in, not quoted properly. It was confusing so I removed it.

synu 4y ago

When it’s a close vote and circumstances are changing rapidly, I’d say pretty often. Maybe every two or three years until some kind of consensus emerges? It seems like an important topic you wouldn’t want to suppress except for once every sixty years or whatever, and might force some negotiation to get to a better place whether through independence or reconciliation. This is assuming the role of the government here is to track what the people want and execute their will. Maybe it’s different in the UK (again, I don’t live there and I know it’s a complicated system).

jfk13 4y ago
> When it’s a close vote and circumstances are changing rapidly, I’d say pretty often And if you hold the vote every 2-3 years, and the result alternates between Yes and No, at what point will you say "stop, this is a final decision"?
- synu 4y ago
  Several inconclusive outcomes don't add up to one conclusive one.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  This is the democracy version of p-hacking.

adrianN 4y ago

About as often as a significant part of the population wants to hold them.

joking 4y ago
and the same for a rejoining referendum?
- adrianN 4y ago
  The same for any referendum.
brigandish 4y ago
52%? 66%? Under 50%? What is significant here?
- synu 4y ago
  It would match the % required to pass the referendum. So if 65% is required, for example, and it seems like 65% might support it, then you should find out. What % is required to pass a binding referendum in the UK? What was required to determine the will of the people for Brexit?
- adrianN 4y ago
  You could do it for example like so: First you give volunteers limited time to collect a relatively small number of signatures, say about 1% of the voters in half a year, to start the process. If that is successful you transfer responsibility to the government and have the government determine whether at least 20% of the population is interested. If so, you hold the referendum.

stoneman24 4y ago

Whenever the people vote for it. The SNP (and Greens) were crystal clear in their manifestos in the last elections and people voted for it. In general, people hope that the politicians should do what they said that they would. With Brexit and Tory policies over 10 years, it seems reasonable to have the vote. I would prefer one vote to start the process and final confirmation vote once the exact deal is established. Always a good idea to know exactly what is being offered before taking the deal (total opposite of Brexit) [scot living in Scotland]

eyko 4y ago

How often do you think the entire government of a state should change? Some would argue every 4-5 years makes it impossible to have politicians with long term thinking. Why not have elections once every generation?

zarzavat 4y ago
If Scotland votes for independence should they hold a referendum every 4-5 years on rejoining the UK?
- bombcar 4y ago
  Sure, if they want to. UK should also feel free to say “eh nah” in that case.
  - blackoil 4y ago
    Not so simple, UK will also have referendums on will they allow Scotland to join or kick them out. Also by nature of politics, the two referendums will not align so people would still be unhappy.
- gambiting 4y ago
  If enough people want it, then of course? Why is this even a question? It is a democratic country last time I checked, if the chosen government representing the people decides that a referendum is what the public want....it should be held regardless of how much time has elapsed.

smcl 4y ago

Whenever there's a seismic enough event like, I dunno, leaving the European Union. That was a fairly effective scare-tactic used by the No campaign - you'll kicked out of the EU, you won't actually meet the criteria! These were pretty huge points that spooked a lot of people into not voting or voting No.

brigandish 4y ago
It's not really seismic though, is it? Both options in each referendum were reasonable, there's plenty of countries in the EU and plenty out that do well, plenty have left the Britain and done well, those in the UK are doing fine. I didn't like the scare tactics in either campaign on either side (though the status quo sides' in each were notably more on the scare side). I see it as an excuse from those who would take any excuse they can.
- smcl 4y ago
  Yes it really is seismic, it is a huge stretch to claim it was anything less than that (otherwise it wouldn't have been such a big issue to threaten the Yes vote with). And furthermore as a Scot living in the EU, believe me it is not simply an "excuse".
  - brigandish 4y ago
    > as a Scot living in the EU, believe me it is not simply an "excuse" Your living situation does not obviate the SNP's pledge. > Yes it really is seismic, My living situation is to live in a region with actual earthquakes, big ones at times too. A change of a trade deal is not in the same universe, let alone world, of effect upon people's daily lives or political events as that. You need to calm yourself down and get some perspective. If this referendum comes to pass I'll move back to give my vote against it (unless I get my chance from here). That's how much I'm against it, and keep in mind, I voted for independence the first time. It's slimy and I won't have it. Edit: I accidentally left part of the responder above's comment that I pasted in, not quoted properly. It was confusing so I removed it.