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Here in Canada we have a high ratio of uneducated fools in government, as is the case when elections are like a grade 10 popularity contest. Governmental electe

Here in Canada we have a high ratio of uneducated fools in government, as is the case when elections are like a grade 10 popularity contest. Governmental elected officials, by and large, have near zero technical minds. What this means is the can not tell the difference between a good idea and a bad one. They flock to the confidence men, they have seen the enemy and he is us, (Pogo) Most of your gravity methods are workable. Deep sea compressed air looks like an efficiency loser. The towers and cement weights seem like winners, but concrete is both brittle and expensive. Make it with cemented earth(5% cement 95% earth/sand) and it is cheaper - but fragile. Make a steel container - ($$) Your mine will hold a weight shaped like a shaft - as long as you want. What about mine water tables? 95% of Canada's mines need 24/7 pumping = flood to near surface all year. Some desert areas might work as deep hole, but there are many many deserts underlaid by aquifers down a few hundred feet = limit of use of gravity. We do not have much already = stupid politicians, if it not done in my term so I can keep the con going, I will not support it. Look at US bridges that fall down a lot.

ncmncm 4y ago
Mine water is not a problem. With an iron weight, water just reduces total MWh capacity by up to 13%. So, you just add 13% more iron. The crane and blocks thing obviously will not work. Multiple YT vids explain why, if not clear. Efficiency is not especially important when generation capacity is cheap. Often something else matters more. Government people can get along by hiring a engineering consultant to lay out costs, and picking the cheapest alternative.
- aurizon 4y ago
  A weight that sinks = granite is a lot cheaper than iron. There is an ecology of governments and consultants designed to weed out those that do not bribe.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    Scrap iron is very cheap. But if you use granite, the flooded penalty is 20% instead of 13%. Not a big deal. Could use lead, instead, flooded penalty 9%. The choice of material for the weight is just about which is cheapest.
    - aurizon 4y ago
      True, local rock is cheapest - but the structure that you lift has to with stand tens of thousands of haul-up/lower-down cycles = standard blocks with enduring quality. Scrap iron does not pack well, unless melted into standard blocks = $200/tonne or more. Crushed granite and various sizes of graded rock (the MacAdam principal) with close to 5% of voids to which you add 5-7% portland cement, as well as a few rebars and cemented in attachment lugs is what these block are made of. They will have a rebar pattern that prevents fragmentation in there are any cracks over time. AS the cement cures, the cement re=hydrates and creates a void free very strong in compression block. With machine pick-up and place-down that carefully avoids crack-making impacts they can survive tens of thousands of trips - which will probably be 1-2 times/day - as power is needed. A water filled mineshaft would work, but most vertical shafts are 8-10 feet wide and perhaps 16-20 long, as they were usually made with 2 elevators - 1 goes up as 1 goes down. For this application they could fit the shaft. Water might erode and places with bad mix. These shafts can be several thousand feet deep - varies. These built on land pyramids are far wider/deeper = lower height needed for same storage as a deep mine limited in width. Most large mines now use 'trackless mining' = a long spiral highway 30 feet wide and 20 feet high going down at an angle, with rock hauled up by electric carts(huge ones) https://www.google.com/search?q=trackless+mining+wiki&rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA924CA924&sxsrf=ALiCzsZ2rVDPFQWR_uiq4KP1ETMzMLLRSQ%3A1655324254182&ei=Xj6qYujgCoH0tAbg2pKgBA&ved=0ahUKEwjoh6Kxo7D4AhUBOs0KHWCtBEQQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=trackless+mining+wiki&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQghEKABOgcIABBHELADOg0ILhDHARCvARCwAxBDOgUIABCABDoGCAAQHhAWOggIABAeEA8QFjoHCCEQChCgAUoECEEYAEoECEYYAFDbBlixGWChHmgBcAF4AIABwQGIAYkGkgEDMS40mAEAoAEByAEGwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz https://www.google.com/search?q=trackless+mining+wiki&rlz=1C... I have not seen how one of these surface ones operate, especially with wind/winter and how many of these cement blocks they use get cracked/dropped. Can you imagine an attachment failure at the worst time knocking down multiple blocks? Recovering from that would take days/weeks and the actual occurrence might halt things for a while while regulators sniffed into everything, esp if there were any lives lost?
      - ncmncm 4y ago
        We have a name for stacked blocks without mortar, after an earthquake or even a heavy storm. That word is "ruins". They may be picturesque, in the distance.

ncmncm 4y ago

Mine water is not a problem. With an iron weight, water just reduces total MWh capacity by up to 13%. So, you just add 13% more iron. The crane and blocks thing obviously will not work. Multiple YT vids explain why, if not clear. Efficiency is not especially important when generation capacity is cheap. Often something else matters more. Government people can get along by hiring a engineering consultant to lay out costs, and picking the cheapest alternative.

aurizon 4y ago
A weight that sinks = granite is a lot cheaper than iron. There is an ecology of governments and consultants designed to weed out those that do not bribe.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Scrap iron is very cheap. But if you use granite, the flooded penalty is 20% instead of 13%. Not a big deal. Could use lead, instead, flooded penalty 9%. The choice of material for the weight is just about which is cheapest.
  - aurizon 4y ago
    True, local rock is cheapest - but the structure that you lift has to with stand tens of thousands of haul-up/lower-down cycles = standard blocks with enduring quality. Scrap iron does not pack well, unless melted into standard blocks = $200/tonne or more. Crushed granite and various sizes of graded rock (the MacAdam principal) with close to 5% of voids to which you add 5-7% portland cement, as well as a few rebars and cemented in attachment lugs is what these block are made of. They will have a rebar pattern that prevents fragmentation in there are any cracks over time. AS the cement cures, the cement re=hydrates and creates a void free very strong in compression block. With machine pick-up and place-down that carefully avoids crack-making impacts they can survive tens of thousands of trips - which will probably be 1-2 times/day - as power is needed. A water filled mineshaft would work, but most vertical shafts are 8-10 feet wide and perhaps 16-20 long, as they were usually made with 2 elevators - 1 goes up as 1 goes down. For this application they could fit the shaft. Water might erode and places with bad mix. These shafts can be several thousand feet deep - varies. These built on land pyramids are far wider/deeper = lower height needed for same storage as a deep mine limited in width. Most large mines now use 'trackless mining' = a long spiral highway 30 feet wide and 20 feet high going down at an angle, with rock hauled up by electric carts(huge ones) https://www.google.com/search?q=trackless+mining+wiki&rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA924CA924&sxsrf=ALiCzsZ2rVDPFQWR_uiq4KP1ETMzMLLRSQ%3A1655324254182&ei=Xj6qYujgCoH0tAbg2pKgBA&ved=0ahUKEwjoh6Kxo7D4AhUBOs0KHWCtBEQQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=trackless+mining+wiki&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQghEKABOgcIABBHELADOg0ILhDHARCvARCwAxBDOgUIABCABDoGCAAQHhAWOggIABAeEA8QFjoHCCEQChCgAUoECEEYAEoECEYYAFDbBlixGWChHmgBcAF4AIABwQGIAYkGkgEDMS40mAEAoAEByAEGwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz https://www.google.com/search?q=trackless+mining+wiki&rlz=1C... I have not seen how one of these surface ones operate, especially with wind/winter and how many of these cement blocks they use get cracked/dropped. Can you imagine an attachment failure at the worst time knocking down multiple blocks? Recovering from that would take days/weeks and the actual occurrence might halt things for a while while regulators sniffed into everything, esp if there were any lives lost?
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      We have a name for stacked blocks without mortar, after an earthquake or even a heavy storm. That word is "ruins". They may be picturesque, in the distance.