4 ms·

How are the incentives any different between an investor owned corporation and a worker owned corporation? Surely the worker owned corporation will also try to

by alickz 4y ago

How are the incentives any different between an investor owned corporation and a worker owned corporation? Surely the worker owned corporation will also try to maximise revenue for the owners too? Just the owners are now the workers instead of the investors. Even if Amazon was fully worker owned right now I suspect most employees would want a raise eventually, meaning either profits must grow or other employees must leave. So you're back at the "maximise growth all else be damned", just now with the incentive spread across all workers instead of just the investors.

blamestross 4y ago
Because the workers actually have skin in the game. If a worker owned collective considers policies that will hurt the workers quality of life more than the new revenue is worth to them, then they won't do it! An "Owner" ironically lacks real skin in the game that workers have.
tablespoon 4y ago
> How are the incentives any different between an investor owned corporation and a worker owned corporation? Surely the worker owned corporation will also try to maximise revenue for the owners too? Just the owners are now the workers instead of the investors. The difference of incentives would probably be mainly internal to the organization, but the effects of that would not be insignificant. By far, most people are workers not capitalist owners after all [1]. [1] Having a 401k does not make you a capitalist owner, it's just a clever trick to get to you make some decisions like one.
pindab0ter 4y ago
I’m in no way qualified to speak on this topic but I would expect that a worker owned company is at least not terrible for the employees, like Amazon is right now.
rakoo 4y ago
Employees may want a raise, buy they are the ones who decide about raises and are the ones who know the health of the collective finances. Give them the power to make changes and the information to decide about it and you will see the behavior is not the same. Salary is not everything. Amazon is known for its crude exploitation if its workers to the point they don't have time to go to the toilet and must bring a piss bottle with them everywhere; a worker-owned company can't have the same policy because people won't exploit themselves. Workers are fully aware of the ecological impact of industries, so they can take meaningful actions to live a bit more harmoniously with their environment. They can care more easily about the discriminations, about their place in the city and in society because they are directly part of it and are the first concerned. If you can't maximize benefits without hurting yourself and the environment you live in, there's a food chance you will actually not maximize it and care about the rest
- jseban 4y ago
  This is just false, people happily "exploit" themselves to make more money, and it makes perfect sense because society is based completely on exploitation, your job as well as anyone's. Middle class people want to project misery and suffering that don't exist, on unwilling "workers", just to validate their own silly middle class job. If you really believe in unions, then fight for a union in your own workplace.
  - rakoo 4y ago
    No, capitalism is based on exploitation, and it's true that current society is neck-deep in neoliberalism but that hasn't always been true. Other organizations existed, that were completely horizontal, without hierarchies and exploitation. Those are not in human nature, as was documented by these guys: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56269264-the-dawn-of-everything?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=NKiqcmddKO&rank=1 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56269264-the-dawn-of-eve... > If you really believe in unions, then fight for a union in your own workplace. I believe work is the creator of riches, and such riches are to be redistributed by those who made it, by remembering that we all depend on each other so there can't be personal property if it harms someone else or the environment. Unions are a step in this direction and I do fight for them but it's only the first step.
    - jseban 4y ago
      You don't have any better alternative to capitalism, that's just crackpot preaching. Trust me when I say that the "workers" are not interested in overthrowing capitalism, you will have to recruit your cult members somewhere else.
      - rakoo 4y ago
        Of course I have alternativeas, but I feel like you don't want to discuss. I don't know how you can be so condescending as to say you know everything there is to know about workers and I don't. Workers want to have an easier life than what they have right now, and capitalism will not help them

by alickz 4y ago

blamestross 4y ago

Because the workers actually have skin in the game. If a worker owned collective considers policies that will hurt the workers quality of life more than the new revenue is worth to them, then they won't do it! An "Owner" ironically lacks real skin in the game that workers have.

tablespoon 4y ago

> How are the incentives any different between an investor owned corporation and a worker owned corporation? Surely the worker owned corporation will also try to maximise revenue for the owners too? Just the owners are now the workers instead of the investors. The difference of incentives would probably be mainly internal to the organization, but the effects of that would not be insignificant. By far, most people are workers not capitalist owners after all [1]. [1] Having a 401k does not make you a capitalist owner, it's just a clever trick to get to you make some decisions like one.

pindab0ter 4y ago

I’m in no way qualified to speak on this topic but I would expect that a worker owned company is at least not terrible for the employees, like Amazon is right now.

rakoo 4y ago

Employees may want a raise, buy they are the ones who decide about raises and are the ones who know the health of the collective finances. Give them the power to make changes and the information to decide about it and you will see the behavior is not the same. Salary is not everything. Amazon is known for its crude exploitation if its workers to the point they don't have time to go to the toilet and must bring a piss bottle with them everywhere; a worker-owned company can't have the same policy because people won't exploit themselves. Workers are fully aware of the ecological impact of industries, so they can take meaningful actions to live a bit more harmoniously with their environment. They can care more easily about the discriminations, about their place in the city and in society because they are directly part of it and are the first concerned. If you can't maximize benefits without hurting yourself and the environment you live in, there's a food chance you will actually not maximize it and care about the rest

jseban 4y ago
This is just false, people happily "exploit" themselves to make more money, and it makes perfect sense because society is based completely on exploitation, your job as well as anyone's. Middle class people want to project misery and suffering that don't exist, on unwilling "workers", just to validate their own silly middle class job. If you really believe in unions, then fight for a union in your own workplace.
- rakoo 4y ago
  No, capitalism is based on exploitation, and it's true that current society is neck-deep in neoliberalism but that hasn't always been true. Other organizations existed, that were completely horizontal, without hierarchies and exploitation. Those are not in human nature, as was documented by these guys: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56269264-the-dawn-of-everything?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=NKiqcmddKO&rank=1 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56269264-the-dawn-of-eve... > If you really believe in unions, then fight for a union in your own workplace. I believe work is the creator of riches, and such riches are to be redistributed by those who made it, by remembering that we all depend on each other so there can't be personal property if it harms someone else or the environment. Unions are a step in this direction and I do fight for them but it's only the first step.
  - jseban 4y ago
    You don't have any better alternative to capitalism, that's just crackpot preaching. Trust me when I say that the "workers" are not interested in overthrowing capitalism, you will have to recruit your cult members somewhere else.
    - rakoo 4y ago
      Of course I have alternativeas, but I feel like you don't want to discuss. I don't know how you can be so condescending as to say you know everything there is to know about workers and I don't. Workers want to have an easier life than what they have right now, and capitalism will not help them