4 ms·

Yeah call in two groups known for having strong unions to stop unionization, that'll work.

eyelidlessness 4y ago
It may, because it’s an intimidation technique. And because one of the two professions is specifically known for violence, and historically against other union organizers. The other is commonly categorized together with the former, and individual firefighters often internalize that.
threatofrain 4y ago
Police unions are a different kind of animal; not the type to campaign in solidarity with what is typically a Democratic political value.
- smitty1e 4y ago
  Private sector unions are a simple matter of free association; if they kill the host, so be it. In the Navy, we called a public sector union a 'mutiny'.
- 0xy 4y ago
  The NYPD union endorsed a Democratic mayoral candidate who campaigned on public housing, low-income support and more funding for schools. The LAPD unions have similar Democratic endorsements. You'll be hard pressed to find a large police union that isn't Democratic, much like most unions.
  - jusssi 4y ago
    Are you sure they aren't just being practical? Seems like the changes they endorse could result in increased workplace safety for their members.
  - dillondoyle 4y ago
    In Democratic cities that makes sense. At least on campaigns I've worked on they tend to endorse what comes out as the more 'conservative' candidate because it's all realpolitik: the candidate which promises the most police friendly policies and who has the best relation (and thus would be friendliest in office to) police, fire, ems, whatever group leaders. Which are usually considered the more 'conservative' or policy friendly.
  - jachee 4y ago
    FOP chapters often aren’t particularly democratic, progressive or labor-friendly; often endorsing Republican candidates. National FOP even endorsed Trump. Twice.
- GoodJokes 4y ago
nwiswell 4y ago
> two groups "fires" refers to termination of employment, not firemen.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
Whatever the name of their organization, the police are no friend to labor. Using arrests and police violence to intimidate union organizers is a classic unionbusting tactic with centuries of history behind it. Have you ever seen a cop on a picket line? In your memory, has a police union joined another local labor union in a strike or action? When workers have had to literally, physically fight and sometimes die for what we now consider to be workers rights, who were they fighting? who killed them? Often it was the police.
vkou 4y ago
The police, and brutalizing labour unions have a long, and bloody history.
- dls2016 4y ago
  Here in Pennsylvania, the official state police history describes the origin of the force as a replacement for coal company police, who were a little too brutal in their union breaking.
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    People literally died for unions, both organizers and scabs. My grandfather was child laborer in the coal mines in Illinois and saw scabs get killed when he was barely a teenager. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrin_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrin_massacre
- kixiQu 4y ago
  Under a hundred miles away, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_massacre_(Washington) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_massacre_(Washington...
AtlasBarfed 4y ago
The cops know their union is different, it is a pact with the elite to keep the rabble down, which is why they are virtually immune to the law. They feel no solidarity with any other union, and in fact know their union exists because others are not allowed to form.
- Kostchei 4y ago
  maybe in the US, but this is not universal and Amazon is a global behemoth. For sure, right-wing conservative politicians are birthed within police services (exhibit 1 peter dutton), and support for conservative gov feels natural for police (pact with the rich and all that), but there is a lot of groundswell left-wing within the active union members- support for communal good etc. I've been the guy in uniform who turned up to negotiate a peaceful settlement to a transport dispute. I'm not sure why the inspector picked me to go inside the picket with him, but once there we both ended up dealing with the union. My starting points were "you want an outcome, some of this is private property, some is a road under the traffic act, but irrespective, nobody wants an injury" (trucks driving over people in the picket seemed distinctly possible) and "I'm a union guy"- which an inspector is not really (they have a separate commissioned officer union which .. is. .not like a union ) We didn't move anybody in the picket. Management acknowledged the petition. Business resumed later that day and no-one got runover. Over the next 18 months there were investigations, in various states including ours, that identified breaches of transport acts, OHS etc, by some of the contracting companies- and a couple of directors got fined. And going on, general issues with trucking law enforcement , fatigue management etc had an impact on normalising the laws across the states. (ie the transport unions had a valid point about problems in the industry) So I'd say, don't expect police to go heavy against unions, you may be disappointed. 15 years exp. YMMD outside Australia

It may, because it’s an intimidation technique. And because one of the two professions is specifically known for violence, and historically against other union organizers. The other is commonly categorized together with the former, and individual firefighters often internalize that.

threatofrain 4y ago

Police unions are a different kind of animal; not the type to campaign in solidarity with what is typically a Democratic political value.

smitty1e 4y ago
Private sector unions are a simple matter of free association; if they kill the host, so be it. In the Navy, we called a public sector union a 'mutiny'.
0xy 4y ago
The NYPD union endorsed a Democratic mayoral candidate who campaigned on public housing, low-income support and more funding for schools. The LAPD unions have similar Democratic endorsements. You'll be hard pressed to find a large police union that isn't Democratic, much like most unions.
- jusssi 4y ago
  Are you sure they aren't just being practical? Seems like the changes they endorse could result in increased workplace safety for their members.
- dillondoyle 4y ago
  In Democratic cities that makes sense. At least on campaigns I've worked on they tend to endorse what comes out as the more 'conservative' candidate because it's all realpolitik: the candidate which promises the most police friendly policies and who has the best relation (and thus would be friendliest in office to) police, fire, ems, whatever group leaders. Which are usually considered the more 'conservative' or policy friendly.
- jachee 4y ago
  FOP chapters often aren’t particularly democratic, progressive or labor-friendly; often endorsing Republican candidates. National FOP even endorsed Trump. Twice.
GoodJokes 4y ago

nwiswell 4y ago

> two groups "fires" refers to termination of employment, not firemen.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

Whatever the name of their organization, the police are no friend to labor. Using arrests and police violence to intimidate union organizers is a classic unionbusting tactic with centuries of history behind it. Have you ever seen a cop on a picket line? In your memory, has a police union joined another local labor union in a strike or action? When workers have had to literally, physically fight and sometimes die for what we now consider to be workers rights, who were they fighting? who killed them? Often it was the police.

vkou 4y ago

The police, and brutalizing labour unions have a long, and bloody history.

dls2016 4y ago
Here in Pennsylvania, the official state police history describes the origin of the force as a replacement for coal company police, who were a little too brutal in their union breaking.
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  People literally died for unions, both organizers and scabs. My grandfather was child laborer in the coal mines in Illinois and saw scabs get killed when he was barely a teenager. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrin_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrin_massacre
kixiQu 4y ago
Under a hundred miles away, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_massacre_(Washington) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_massacre_(Washington...

AtlasBarfed 4y ago

The cops know their union is different, it is a pact with the elite to keep the rabble down, which is why they are virtually immune to the law. They feel no solidarity with any other union, and in fact know their union exists because others are not allowed to form.

Kostchei 4y ago
maybe in the US, but this is not universal and Amazon is a global behemoth. For sure, right-wing conservative politicians are birthed within police services (exhibit 1 peter dutton), and support for conservative gov feels natural for police (pact with the rich and all that), but there is a lot of groundswell left-wing within the active union members- support for communal good etc. I've been the guy in uniform who turned up to negotiate a peaceful settlement to a transport dispute. I'm not sure why the inspector picked me to go inside the picket with him, but once there we both ended up dealing with the union. My starting points were "you want an outcome, some of this is private property, some is a road under the traffic act, but irrespective, nobody wants an injury" (trucks driving over people in the picket seemed distinctly possible) and "I'm a union guy"- which an inspector is not really (they have a separate commissioned officer union which .. is. .not like a union ) We didn't move anybody in the picket. Management acknowledged the petition. Business resumed later that day and no-one got runover. Over the next 18 months there were investigations, in various states including ours, that identified breaches of transport acts, OHS etc, by some of the contracting companies- and a couple of directors got fined. And going on, general issues with trucking law enforcement , fatigue management etc had an impact on normalising the laws across the states. (ie the transport unions had a valid point about problems in the industry) So I'd say, don't expect police to go heavy against unions, you may be disappointed. 15 years exp. YMMD outside Australia