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> Given the growing lockdown of Apple’s systems I see that kind of stuff said from time to time. But I don't quite understand. How is it growing? And people t

> Given the growing lockdown of Apple’s systems I see that kind of stuff said from time to time. But I don't quite understand. How is it growing? And people talk about it (App Store) as if it's terribly evil of Apple but it's okay when it gets done on say a Xbox.

gujk 15y ago
XBox is no one's primary PC, and is only used for diversions, not work and hobbies. Entertainment is more fungible than livelihood and passion.
- ashishgandhi 15y ago
  If you talk of "primary PCs" (OS X) it's as open as proprietary gets - more than say Windows - such as the kernel is open source.
  - veyron 15y ago
    Is that true of osx lion? How do you recompile and load the kernel?
    - gnok 15y ago
      It is, to an extent. For OS X 10.7.2, you can grab the source at http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.8/ http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.8/. The "README" at http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.8/README http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.8/README has instructions on building and installing the kernel. Admittedly, while I have never actually done this, I've seen lots of instructions floating around for doing this "correctly".
    - GeneralMaximus 15y ago
      Yes, that's true. You can do much more than just recompiling the kernel. For example, see http://puredarwin.org http://puredarwin.org
Groxx 15y ago
I came to say that too. If anything, it keeps decreasing - the first app-capable iOS devices had no app store, and the barrier to entry for programming on either system keeps dropping (the SDKs and even the IDEs are free, for instance). The only claim I can see is the emergence of the OSX App Store - big shocker there, given the success on iOS - but that hasn't resulted in a lockdown of regular installs, and I doubt it will. As to the XCode-is-required claim, that's been false for a very long time - their GCC is open source, and has been for years. It has only recently become easy though, I'll grant that.
- ootachi 15y ago
  Many reasons: Apple clearly sees iOS and its locked-down environment as the future and Mac OS X as the past. Given that, we can conclude that the overall openness of Apple's offerings will decrease as they focus their efforts on iOS. Xcode is for-pay now, while it was free earlier. Apple keeps breaking SIMBL. Debuggers now need to be signed by Apple or self-signed; either way, it's a pain. QuickTime X is no longer extensible via plugins.
  - sbuk 15y ago
    >> Xcode is for-pay now, while it was free earlier. It's back to being free if you have installed Lion. >> Apple keeps breaking SIMBL. SIMBL is a non-standard 3rd party framework. It would be more correct to say that SIMBL isn't keeping up with OS X development.
  - Groxx 15y ago
    >Apple clearly sees iOS and its locked-down environment as the future and Mac OS X as the past Citation needed? Or are you pulling that from OSX getting a dose of iOS UI? The existence of the app store is merely a sign that they make money from the iOS one, and wish to make more money. SIMBL is a hack used to load hacks (a fantastically useful one, don't get me wrong there). Its very nature is fragile, and Apple has zero responsibility to make sure it continues to work.

gujk 15y ago

XBox is no one's primary PC, and is only used for diversions, not work and hobbies. Entertainment is more fungible than livelihood and passion.

ashishgandhi 15y ago
If you talk of "primary PCs" (OS X) it's as open as proprietary gets - more than say Windows - such as the kernel is open source.
- veyron 15y ago
  Is that true of osx lion? How do you recompile and load the kernel?
  - gnok 15y ago
    It is, to an extent. For OS X 10.7.2, you can grab the source at http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.8/ http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.8/. The "README" at http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.8/README http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.8/README has instructions on building and installing the kernel. Admittedly, while I have never actually done this, I've seen lots of instructions floating around for doing this "correctly".
  - GeneralMaximus 15y ago
    Yes, that's true. You can do much more than just recompiling the kernel. For example, see http://puredarwin.org http://puredarwin.org

Groxx 15y ago

I came to say that too. If anything, it keeps decreasing - the first app-capable iOS devices had no app store, and the barrier to entry for programming on either system keeps dropping (the SDKs and even the IDEs are free, for instance). The only claim I can see is the emergence of the OSX App Store - big shocker there, given the success on iOS - but that hasn't resulted in a lockdown of regular installs, and I doubt it will. As to the XCode-is-required claim, that's been false for a very long time - their GCC is open source, and has been for years. It has only recently become easy though, I'll grant that.

ootachi 15y ago
Many reasons: Apple clearly sees iOS and its locked-down environment as the future and Mac OS X as the past. Given that, we can conclude that the overall openness of Apple's offerings will decrease as they focus their efforts on iOS. Xcode is for-pay now, while it was free earlier. Apple keeps breaking SIMBL. Debuggers now need to be signed by Apple or self-signed; either way, it's a pain. QuickTime X is no longer extensible via plugins.
- sbuk 15y ago
  >> Xcode is for-pay now, while it was free earlier. It's back to being free if you have installed Lion. >> Apple keeps breaking SIMBL. SIMBL is a non-standard 3rd party framework. It would be more correct to say that SIMBL isn't keeping up with OS X development.
- Groxx 15y ago
  >Apple clearly sees iOS and its locked-down environment as the future and Mac OS X as the past Citation needed? Or are you pulling that from OSX getting a dose of iOS UI? The existence of the app store is merely a sign that they make money from the iOS one, and wish to make more money. SIMBL is a hack used to load hacks (a fantastically useful one, don't get me wrong there). Its very nature is fragile, and Apple has zero responsibility to make sure it continues to work.