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Why are startups the leaders in lithium recycling? Haven't we learned after decades that producers of trash should be the ones cleaning it up? Europe made man

Why are startups the leaders in lithium recycling? Haven't we learned after decades that producers of trash should be the ones cleaning it up? Europe made manufacturers responsible for all that extra plastic packaging years ago. When Tesla's battery packs wear out they should be dumped at their feet for recycling. Only by folding the problem back on manufacturers will they have any real incentive to build sustainable and repairable products.

google234123 4y ago
> Europe made manufacturers responsible for all that extra plastic packaging years ago. I'm guessing they just pass this cost to consumers and the EU already has very high taxes on average.
- blackoil 4y ago
  Which is how it should be. In the end consumer is making the purchase decision.
toomuchtodo 4y ago
Redwood Materials was founded by a Tesla cofounder. They have contracts with both legacy (Ford, notably) and startup automakers, and presumably, will have a contract with Tesla at some point. Panasonic (who manufactures a portion of cells Tesla consumes) has an agreement to source materials for battery production from Redwood. If you’re asking why JB left to found Redwood instead of Tesla building this capability this internally, I’d speculate that it was to demonstrate some form of independence to get legacy automakers onboard versus them potentially being unwilling to work with a competitor and intertwining their supply chains with Tesla. Tesla could always buy Redwood, but based on the investment Redwood has been able to obtain, that’s an unnecessary organizational complexity. Tangentially, Tesla does refurbish and repair entire battery packs for purchase by vehicle owners. It’s still expensive though (I was quoted $19k for a 100kw Model S battery pack if I needed a replacement out of warranty, and that is very close to Tesla’s costs based on some inside math). (nothing above is material non public information)
spaetzleesser 4y ago
Totally agree. Incentives would align nicely if they were forced to take their stuff back. Companies would have good reason to design their products in a way that they are easy to recycle. It's hard to understand why this is still not the standard.
Gigachad 4y ago
Honestly I think we need to go further. We should mandate that all petrol producers invest in enough carbon capture to remove all the co2 produced by burning the fuel. If you can’t afford to capture the co2 then you can’t afford to burn the fuel.
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
You don't have to force them to do it thenselves, just force them to pay for it. This then creates the market and lets big corporation and startups do their thing and the market sort it out because big corps know how to keep their costs down (unfortunately the cheapest option is usually anti-regulation propaganda). Government regulation leading to efficient free market outcomes. An apparently absurd idea to many even though it's probably the biggest driver of human progress on record.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  Tesla doesn't actually do anything. They pay people to do things like build cars. If they have to deal with old batteries then they will be paying someone to deal with them. Whether that is an internal employee or external company is just semantics.

google234123 4y ago

> Europe made manufacturers responsible for all that extra plastic packaging years ago. I'm guessing they just pass this cost to consumers and the EU already has very high taxes on average.

blackoil 4y ago
Which is how it should be. In the end consumer is making the purchase decision.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Redwood Materials was founded by a Tesla cofounder. They have contracts with both legacy (Ford, notably) and startup automakers, and presumably, will have a contract with Tesla at some point. Panasonic (who manufactures a portion of cells Tesla consumes) has an agreement to source materials for battery production from Redwood. If you’re asking why JB left to found Redwood instead of Tesla building this capability this internally, I’d speculate that it was to demonstrate some form of independence to get legacy automakers onboard versus them potentially being unwilling to work with a competitor and intertwining their supply chains with Tesla. Tesla could always buy Redwood, but based on the investment Redwood has been able to obtain, that’s an unnecessary organizational complexity. Tangentially, Tesla does refurbish and repair entire battery packs for purchase by vehicle owners. It’s still expensive though (I was quoted $19k for a 100kw Model S battery pack if I needed a replacement out of warranty, and that is very close to Tesla’s costs based on some inside math). (nothing above is material non public information)

spaetzleesser 4y ago

Totally agree. Incentives would align nicely if they were forced to take their stuff back. Companies would have good reason to design their products in a way that they are easy to recycle. It's hard to understand why this is still not the standard.

Gigachad 4y ago

Honestly I think we need to go further. We should mandate that all petrol producers invest in enough carbon capture to remove all the co2 produced by burning the fuel. If you can’t afford to capture the co2 then you can’t afford to burn the fuel.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

You don't have to force them to do it thenselves, just force them to pay for it. This then creates the market and lets big corporation and startups do their thing and the market sort it out because big corps know how to keep their costs down (unfortunately the cheapest option is usually anti-regulation propaganda). Government regulation leading to efficient free market outcomes. An apparently absurd idea to many even though it's probably the biggest driver of human progress on record.

sandworm101 4y ago
Tesla doesn't actually do anything. They pay people to do things like build cars. If they have to deal with old batteries then they will be paying someone to deal with them. Whether that is an internal employee or external company is just semantics.