4 ms·

Only one particular ideology tries to pretend these are their values, though.

colechristensen 4y ago
You seem to be insinuating that the only political party that isn't full of shit is the one you align with, when that particular disease is and has always been everywhere.
- taylodl 4y ago
  There's a reason I don't align with the political party that's full of shit - because they're full of shit! It didn't used to be this way - I used to be a Republican (I'm no spring chicken, I've been around the block a few times). The Republican Party has earned my repudiation! And hey, the Democratic Party may earn my repudiation also but due to Duverger's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law) I'm pretty much stuck with being a Democrat until they become the worse option than the Republicans. At this point I don't see that happening for quite some time.
- suture 4y ago
  That is not what is being insinuated. The charge is that Republicans advertise themselves as being the party of small government and the free market. That charge is true or false independent of the hypocrisy of other parties. Those hypocrisies can be brought up another time. Do you believe the Republican Party in North Carolina is being hypocritical in this instance?
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    I think four state representatives wrote a bill. State houses are full of idiots and really stupid bills are put forward all the time. Unless we're all residents of North Carolina AND there is a sense that this bill has traction, it is not worth any attention nor should it be thought of as representing a party's position.
    - suture 4y ago
      - colechristensen 4y ago
        Your snarkiness is inappropriate here and your politics a symbol of unhelpful political discourse everywhere in this country. I don't care what a few politicians wrote in a bill, it doesn't rise to what "North Carolina wants" or what their local party wants. You shouldn't take idiots so seriously or focus on this "ha! gotcha!" kind of political nonsense. The bill is stupid, the people sponsoring it are stupid, let's not inflate that to saying that everybody in their party is a hypocrite because of a bill they introduced. You want to go on a crusade against these individuals, go ahead, but it's generally uninteresting and unhelpful to anyone. If we focus on making broad generalizations based on stupid statehouse bills around the country, we will certainly never get anything done besides a lively bit of insulting each other.
        suture 4y ago
        Don’t need to make a broad generalization to say that the proposal in question is hypocritical. One can say, “The people who made this proposal are being hypocritical and they are wrong for doing so.” It is always appropriate to admit that someone’s actions are hypocritical regardless of what “side” one is on. I believe the failure of people to point out individual acts of hypocrisy is what leads, overtime, to people making stereotypes. Importantly one should note that the leadership of the Republican Party fails to admonish those who came up with this dumb proposal. (Yes, Democratic leadership rarely calls out Democratic lawmakers making really bad proposals but right now we are talking about the Republican Party.). For instance, the leadership isn’t saying, “This is contrary to our principle of small government.” So it is OK to use a bit of a broad brush in this case.
  - dismantlethesun 4y ago
    Not a follower of US politics, so this might be simple ignorance, but I’m not sure what the democrats represent. Obama for instance didn’t seem to run a campaign on the virtue of big government and socialism. As someone who lives in a socialist country, I’m certain the Affordable Care Act wasn’t socialism, it just sanctioned pre existing monopolies and regulated them, while forcing everyone to buy from the monopolists or pay a fine. So then what is it the democrats want?
    - swearwolf 4y ago
    - suture 4y ago
      The Republican Party is far more cohesive on its message to voters and on how their elected members vote. Democrats have much more variation. Obama was a right of center President by the standards of 1980. The Affordable Care Act is, in its essence, the same plan that the Republican Mitt Romney instituted as Governor of Massachusetts and it’s the plan endorsed in 1993 by the conservative Heritage Foundation. In spite of this the act was labeled communist by Republicans. The strategy Republicans have employed since 1992 is to go further right of anything a Democratic President wants. Hence the absurd labeling of Biden as a radical leftist. There are some Democratic Socialists in the Democratic Party but they don’t have enough power to push their agenda through. Since 1992 the the power structure of the Democratic Party has endorsed slow, incremental changes provided those changes don’t disrupt the corporatist polity that we have.
      - smegger001 4y ago
        It goes even farther back the Massachusetts health care law was originally a Republican plan dating back to Richard Nixon. The Republican had been holding it in their back pocket for decades planning to implement it as a compromise when the Democrats tried to push for real socialized medicine. Instead the Democrats put it in place undercutting the Republican as they had nothing to push in its place. that's they it has survived despite the Republican holding congress and the white house for several years they just didn't have anything to replace it with.
- netsharc 4y ago
  When the asshole is in the "other team": "What a scumbag that whole team is!" When the asshole is in "your team": "They're all equally crooked anyway!" There are individual politicians who try their darndest to be clean, but heck, if a little bending of principles gets your constituents that funding, it's probably easier to do so rather than fight hard for that funding "the right way" and get nothing at the end. Are lobbyists that evil that they offer money for politicians' noble causes? There's already the "we'll open an office in your constituency" that actually helps people with jobs...
- CuriouslyC 4y ago
  You're not wrong, but the amount of blatant hypocrisy on the right is just on another level, particularly among the hardcore Christians. At least the democrats typically have the decency to be sex positive or openly gay before having a scandalous affair.

You seem to be insinuating that the only political party that isn't full of shit is the one you align with, when that particular disease is and has always been everywhere.

taylodl 4y ago
There's a reason I don't align with the political party that's full of shit - because they're full of shit! It didn't used to be this way - I used to be a Republican (I'm no spring chicken, I've been around the block a few times). The Republican Party has earned my repudiation! And hey, the Democratic Party may earn my repudiation also but due to Duverger's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law) I'm pretty much stuck with being a Democrat until they become the worse option than the Republicans. At this point I don't see that happening for quite some time.
suture 4y ago
That is not what is being insinuated. The charge is that Republicans advertise themselves as being the party of small government and the free market. That charge is true or false independent of the hypocrisy of other parties. Those hypocrisies can be brought up another time. Do you believe the Republican Party in North Carolina is being hypocritical in this instance?
- colechristensen 4y ago
  I think four state representatives wrote a bill. State houses are full of idiots and really stupid bills are put forward all the time. Unless we're all residents of North Carolina AND there is a sense that this bill has traction, it is not worth any attention nor should it be thought of as representing a party's position.
  - suture 4y ago
    - colechristensen 4y ago
      Your snarkiness is inappropriate here and your politics a symbol of unhelpful political discourse everywhere in this country. I don't care what a few politicians wrote in a bill, it doesn't rise to what "North Carolina wants" or what their local party wants. You shouldn't take idiots so seriously or focus on this "ha! gotcha!" kind of political nonsense. The bill is stupid, the people sponsoring it are stupid, let's not inflate that to saying that everybody in their party is a hypocrite because of a bill they introduced. You want to go on a crusade against these individuals, go ahead, but it's generally uninteresting and unhelpful to anyone. If we focus on making broad generalizations based on stupid statehouse bills around the country, we will certainly never get anything done besides a lively bit of insulting each other.
      - suture 4y ago
        Don’t need to make a broad generalization to say that the proposal in question is hypocritical. One can say, “The people who made this proposal are being hypocritical and they are wrong for doing so.” It is always appropriate to admit that someone’s actions are hypocritical regardless of what “side” one is on. I believe the failure of people to point out individual acts of hypocrisy is what leads, overtime, to people making stereotypes. Importantly one should note that the leadership of the Republican Party fails to admonish those who came up with this dumb proposal. (Yes, Democratic leadership rarely calls out Democratic lawmakers making really bad proposals but right now we are talking about the Republican Party.). For instance, the leadership isn’t saying, “This is contrary to our principle of small government.” So it is OK to use a bit of a broad brush in this case.
- dismantlethesun 4y ago
  Not a follower of US politics, so this might be simple ignorance, but I’m not sure what the democrats represent. Obama for instance didn’t seem to run a campaign on the virtue of big government and socialism. As someone who lives in a socialist country, I’m certain the Affordable Care Act wasn’t socialism, it just sanctioned pre existing monopolies and regulated them, while forcing everyone to buy from the monopolists or pay a fine. So then what is it the democrats want?
  - swearwolf 4y ago
  - suture 4y ago
    The Republican Party is far more cohesive on its message to voters and on how their elected members vote. Democrats have much more variation. Obama was a right of center President by the standards of 1980. The Affordable Care Act is, in its essence, the same plan that the Republican Mitt Romney instituted as Governor of Massachusetts and it’s the plan endorsed in 1993 by the conservative Heritage Foundation. In spite of this the act was labeled communist by Republicans. The strategy Republicans have employed since 1992 is to go further right of anything a Democratic President wants. Hence the absurd labeling of Biden as a radical leftist. There are some Democratic Socialists in the Democratic Party but they don’t have enough power to push their agenda through. Since 1992 the the power structure of the Democratic Party has endorsed slow, incremental changes provided those changes don’t disrupt the corporatist polity that we have.
    - smegger001 4y ago
      It goes even farther back the Massachusetts health care law was originally a Republican plan dating back to Richard Nixon. The Republican had been holding it in their back pocket for decades planning to implement it as a compromise when the Democrats tried to push for real socialized medicine. Instead the Democrats put it in place undercutting the Republican as they had nothing to push in its place. that's they it has survived despite the Republican holding congress and the white house for several years they just didn't have anything to replace it with.
netsharc 4y ago
When the asshole is in the "other team": "What a scumbag that whole team is!" When the asshole is in "your team": "They're all equally crooked anyway!" There are individual politicians who try their darndest to be clean, but heck, if a little bending of principles gets your constituents that funding, it's probably easier to do so rather than fight hard for that funding "the right way" and get nothing at the end. Are lobbyists that evil that they offer money for politicians' noble causes? There's already the "we'll open an office in your constituency" that actually helps people with jobs...
CuriouslyC 4y ago
You're not wrong, but the amount of blatant hypocrisy on the right is just on another level, particularly among the hardcore Christians. At least the democrats typically have the decency to be sex positive or openly gay before having a scandalous affair.