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> since EV charging takes longer This is an interesting second order factor for public charging. The critical part may not be cost of electricity but the exten

by adolph 4y ago

> since EV charging takes longer This is an interesting second order factor for public charging. The critical part may not be cost of electricity but the extended parking space required. If a ICE refuel space is used for <10m and a EV recharge space is used for 30m then the station's total capacity was just cut in third.

philips 4y ago
Maybe. Some studies show up to 80% of EV charging in the US is done at home. So demand is way lower.
- belltaco 4y ago
  That's partly because it's hard for apartment/condo users to charge EVs, so they buy them less compared to home owners or renters, and thus underrepresented in your stats in spite of demand for EVs among them. It's a classic chicken and egg problem.
  - philips 4y ago
    My personal belief is that condos will apartment/condos will start installing chargers as both a differentiator and through incentives. My own experience is that I refused to sign a lease in 2019 until an outlet was available and the landlord installed one. It will be like pet friendly apartments.
    - vineyardmike 4y ago
      Not every apartment is pet friendly. Not every apartment can have an electric charger. I agree that it’s going to get a lot more common at apartments but won’t apply to everyone. My last apartment had a massive garage with electric charging. It was $400/mo. My current apartment doesn’t have anything beyond street parking which definitely has no electric charging spots.
- freeflight 4y ago
  Careful with taking that number at face value. For the longest time the EV market was an upper-class market, so first adopters most likely were people who are wealthy enough to have their own home and thus the option to install their own chargers, particularly as the charging networks weren't really in place yet 10 years ago. But over time that % is bound to shift heavily as EVs become more affordable, the charging networks become more dense, and more people, who don't own their own property, get into the market. This will very likely increase demand for "not at home" charging, particularly considering how in many urban places people already struggle with finding a place to park, let alone one with a charger.
belltaco 4y ago
But most people charging at a gas station will be mostly apartment dwellers that don't have EV charging in their nightly parking spots yet. Home owners or renters can charge at home most of the time. The gas station charging eliminates range anxiety for them and helps EVs with smaller batteries and shorter ranges like the Leaf. Even for the apartment dwellers, there will be more and more EV chargers at parking spots near grocery stores, malls, movie theaters, amusement parks, offices etc.
ericbarrett 4y ago
Gas stations have a lot of space taken up by the pumps, bollards to prevent collisions with them, and traffic flow since most stops are only a few minutes. I expect a fully realized commercial charging station would look more like a Starbucks, parking lot and all. So probably a lot more dense.
- r00fus 4y ago
  This brings up the question - forget gas stations, what other businesses can leverage their omnipresence to become defacto "the charging spot" and increase their foot traffic commensurately?
  - dangrossman 4y ago
    The vast majority of Electrify America charging stations are in Walmart and Target parking lots. They are positioning themselves for that role already. When I take a road trip in my electric car, it can feel like a tour of Wal-Marts across America.
  - hakfoo 4y ago
    I figured broader decentralization-- every supermarket has 10 or 20 charging spots, every strip mall 2-5. There's a huge synergy there in that you've now got customers who may feel "I've got 30 minutes to kill, I'll buy another coffee/cycle around the store and pick up another impulse buy item." There may easily be a point where subsidizing the charge to attract EV customers is a net positive for business.

by adolph 4y ago

philips 4y ago

Maybe. Some studies show up to 80% of EV charging in the US is done at home. So demand is way lower.

belltaco 4y ago
That's partly because it's hard for apartment/condo users to charge EVs, so they buy them less compared to home owners or renters, and thus underrepresented in your stats in spite of demand for EVs among them. It's a classic chicken and egg problem.
- philips 4y ago
  My personal belief is that condos will apartment/condos will start installing chargers as both a differentiator and through incentives. My own experience is that I refused to sign a lease in 2019 until an outlet was available and the landlord installed one. It will be like pet friendly apartments.
  - vineyardmike 4y ago
    Not every apartment is pet friendly. Not every apartment can have an electric charger. I agree that it’s going to get a lot more common at apartments but won’t apply to everyone. My last apartment had a massive garage with electric charging. It was $400/mo. My current apartment doesn’t have anything beyond street parking which definitely has no electric charging spots.
freeflight 4y ago
Careful with taking that number at face value. For the longest time the EV market was an upper-class market, so first adopters most likely were people who are wealthy enough to have their own home and thus the option to install their own chargers, particularly as the charging networks weren't really in place yet 10 years ago. But over time that % is bound to shift heavily as EVs become more affordable, the charging networks become more dense, and more people, who don't own their own property, get into the market. This will very likely increase demand for "not at home" charging, particularly considering how in many urban places people already struggle with finding a place to park, let alone one with a charger.

belltaco 4y ago

But most people charging at a gas station will be mostly apartment dwellers that don't have EV charging in their nightly parking spots yet. Home owners or renters can charge at home most of the time. The gas station charging eliminates range anxiety for them and helps EVs with smaller batteries and shorter ranges like the Leaf. Even for the apartment dwellers, there will be more and more EV chargers at parking spots near grocery stores, malls, movie theaters, amusement parks, offices etc.

ericbarrett 4y ago

Gas stations have a lot of space taken up by the pumps, bollards to prevent collisions with them, and traffic flow since most stops are only a few minutes. I expect a fully realized commercial charging station would look more like a Starbucks, parking lot and all. So probably a lot more dense.

r00fus 4y ago
This brings up the question - forget gas stations, what other businesses can leverage their omnipresence to become defacto "the charging spot" and increase their foot traffic commensurately?
- dangrossman 4y ago
  The vast majority of Electrify America charging stations are in Walmart and Target parking lots. They are positioning themselves for that role already. When I take a road trip in my electric car, it can feel like a tour of Wal-Marts across America.
- hakfoo 4y ago
  I figured broader decentralization-- every supermarket has 10 or 20 charging spots, every strip mall 2-5. There's a huge synergy there in that you've now got customers who may feel "I've got 30 minutes to kill, I'll buy another coffee/cycle around the store and pick up another impulse buy item." There may easily be a point where subsidizing the charge to attract EV customers is a net positive for business.