5 ms·

Ask HN: Why is it so hard for someone in India to get a $100K Dev job?

2 points by amrrs 4y ago

While dev salaries are hitting the roof in the US and similar places, it's super hard to find a job someone living in India to get $100K salary even with the same talent ?

ev1 4y ago
The question kind of becomes whether you're willing and able to get authorisation to move to the US, specifically to an area where $130k is below the definition of "low income" and requires five roommates even then, because employers will CoL adjust below 100k even within the US when you move cities. edit: SFHUD's low income definition for a 4 person family is $149,100 now
meetingthrower 4y ago
Assuming you are talking about a US remote job - short answer: the talent is not the same on average, and search costs are high. While pure coding talent may be on par, unless you are a solo dev you must be part of a team. Therefore communication skills are more than half the job. This is vastly underweighted by IT folks in general, and by gross stereotype, by the graduates of Indian technical schools. An American company might be willing to hire someone, but it takes tremendous work to recruit, train, retain, and manage an employee. Especially at 12 hours time difference. So those are real costs. And this is why you rarely see "real" cost savings from outsourcing IT functions.
- croh 4y ago
  100% agree with this. As a solo dev or freelancer things are different than as team member. With 12 hours time difference, it is better to have separate team in India who can colloborate with offshore team on bi/weekly basis.
dotcoma 4y ago
Because it's full of people who would be happy to do that same job for half that sum, perhaps?
gregjor 4y ago
Basic economics: supply, demand, competition. I believe programmers in India working for Indian employers make far less than USD $100k per year. That means every programmer in India competes with thousands (or more) people with similar qualifications who will work for slightly less, driving the salaries down. American companies employing remote programmers will pay the prevailing rates in the foreign country, because they have their pick of people and the same compensation pressures apply. Indians who can get a visa or immigrate to the US can of course make as much as anyone else with the legal right to work in the US. As another comment mentioned, working as a member of a team and communications skills come into it, as does the time difference. Indian English is not the same as American English, so communication problems and misunderstandings come up. Many employers are not set up to sponsor visas, or don’t want the hassle of paying remote foreigners. The big tech companies that do sponsor visas and have outsourced teams can take their pick and set the prices. Turn the question around: Why is it super hard for someone living in Nigeria to get a good-paying programmer job in India?
whb07 4y ago
Why is a chef in Switzerland make 100x what a chef in Zimbabwe even with some talent? Assuming you’re kinda referring about yourself, it seems the Indian GDP cannot sustain that level of pay. For instance the effective minimum wage in NYC is $20/hr+, whereas in Mumbai it’s $150/month (quick search, don’t hold me to this). India still has quite a ways to go in development before the standard of living improves. AFAIK, millions in India get diseases from pooping/peeing on the street. Got to address the basics before $100k is standard
csomar 4y ago
Same talent? Definitively, no. Particular talent? I'm pretty sure there are many Software Developers in India doing $100K+ per year. The problem is taxes and what you get for it. The taxes for the higher bracket in India is 30% and the social security rate sits at a 24%. That's a significant (almost half) part of your salary going to the state. The problem is, at $50K/year, you are not getting your money's worth. If you were paying this in France, it might acceptable. But in India? You are much better spending these $50k/year in the UAE for private health care, condo and private schools. This should explain the big number of software development shops in the UAE who are employing Indians. The flip doesn't even start at $100k/year; and I suspect, at that amount, the UAE might not be that attractive. Of course India is losing (both money, and talent) because of this. But not-taxing the "rich" will be an unpopular measure.

2 points by amrrs 4y ago

While dev salaries are hitting the roof in the US and similar places, it's super hard to find a job someone living in India to get $100K salary even with the same talent ?

ev1 4y ago

The question kind of becomes whether you're willing and able to get authorisation to move to the US, specifically to an area where $130k is below the definition of "low income" and requires five roommates even then, because employers will CoL adjust below 100k even within the US when you move cities. edit: SFHUD's low income definition for a 4 person family is $149,100 now

meetingthrower 4y ago

Assuming you are talking about a US remote job - short answer: the talent is not the same on average, and search costs are high. While pure coding talent may be on par, unless you are a solo dev you must be part of a team. Therefore communication skills are more than half the job. This is vastly underweighted by IT folks in general, and by gross stereotype, by the graduates of Indian technical schools. An American company might be willing to hire someone, but it takes tremendous work to recruit, train, retain, and manage an employee. Especially at 12 hours time difference. So those are real costs. And this is why you rarely see "real" cost savings from outsourcing IT functions.

croh 4y ago
100% agree with this. As a solo dev or freelancer things are different than as team member. With 12 hours time difference, it is better to have separate team in India who can colloborate with offshore team on bi/weekly basis.

dotcoma 4y ago

Because it's full of people who would be happy to do that same job for half that sum, perhaps?

gregjor 4y ago

Basic economics: supply, demand, competition. I believe programmers in India working for Indian employers make far less than USD $100k per year. That means every programmer in India competes with thousands (or more) people with similar qualifications who will work for slightly less, driving the salaries down. American companies employing remote programmers will pay the prevailing rates in the foreign country, because they have their pick of people and the same compensation pressures apply. Indians who can get a visa or immigrate to the US can of course make as much as anyone else with the legal right to work in the US. As another comment mentioned, working as a member of a team and communications skills come into it, as does the time difference. Indian English is not the same as American English, so communication problems and misunderstandings come up. Many employers are not set up to sponsor visas, or don’t want the hassle of paying remote foreigners. The big tech companies that do sponsor visas and have outsourced teams can take their pick and set the prices. Turn the question around: Why is it super hard for someone living in Nigeria to get a good-paying programmer job in India?

whb07 4y ago

Why is a chef in Switzerland make 100x what a chef in Zimbabwe even with some talent? Assuming you’re kinda referring about yourself, it seems the Indian GDP cannot sustain that level of pay. For instance the effective minimum wage in NYC is $20/hr+, whereas in Mumbai it’s $150/month (quick search, don’t hold me to this). India still has quite a ways to go in development before the standard of living improves. AFAIK, millions in India get diseases from pooping/peeing on the street. Got to address the basics before $100k is standard

csomar 4y ago

Same talent? Definitively, no. Particular talent? I'm pretty sure there are many Software Developers in India doing $100K+ per year. The problem is taxes and what you get for it. The taxes for the higher bracket in India is 30% and the social security rate sits at a 24%. That's a significant (almost half) part of your salary going to the state. The problem is, at $50K/year, you are not getting your money's worth. If you were paying this in France, it might acceptable. But in India? You are much better spending these $50k/year in the UAE for private health care, condo and private schools. This should explain the big number of software development shops in the UAE who are employing Indians. The flip doesn't even start at $100k/year; and I suspect, at that amount, the UAE might not be that attractive. Of course India is losing (both money, and talent) because of this. But not-taxing the "rich" will be an unpopular measure.