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> We aren't talking slaves, we're talking about people who are, by and large, free to make their own life choices. Who were raised without both parents, which

> We aren't talking slaves, we're talking about people who are, by and large, free to make their own life choices. Who were raised without both parents, which is all they know. This isn't some culture that they're saying is good and that they're trying to uphold, which you erroneously claim. > That certain cultures do not prioritize education as much as others is not a point of contention. That isn't. What is a point of contention is that you think they want to live that way and that this can't be changed. This was changed for many Europeans (and their descendants) long ago, though many remain superstitious halfwits who haven't yet been taught to think rationally and continue to do things like blaming people for their upbringing instead of fixing their environment. > That very article clearly shows how that culture prioritises education. And you seem to think that culture can't be changed. Nigerians in the west weren't always this way, and most Nigerians in Nigeria aren't this way.

lelanthran 4y ago
> That isn't. What is a point of contention is that you think they want to live that way and that this can't be changed. I did not make that claim either. I said that pointing out the poor practices of some cultures are likely to be viewed by members of those cultures as an attack. So, no, I did not claim > people want to live that way and that this can't be changed. I did not do this either: > You're blaming the victims instead of helping them. I did not claim: > parenting doesn't matter, only the color of the child's skin. I did not > blame people who are in these situations instead of bringing about the change to fix it. You've put all those words into my mouth, and then proceeded to argue against them. You, on the other hand, actually did claim here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31707777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31707777 the following: > Children raised by uneducated parents surrounded by crime are worse off due to their environment, and their culture is a product of that environment. And then happily posted evidence against that claim: > > Tell that to children of Nigerian immigrants.https://medium.com/@joecarleton/why-nigerian-immigrants-are-the-most-successful-ethnic-group-in-the-u-s-23a7ea5a0832 https://medium.com/@joecarleton/why-nigerian-immigrants-are-... You ignored this comment of mine: > There are multiple different cultures even in the same race group! So it's quite confusing to me why you immediately and so quickly responded to a race-based argument that was never made. I actually said that race doesn't matter. Your "evidence" you posted about the Nigerians actually supports what I said. I believe you are arguing in bad faith; you appear to have no desire for anything other than virtue signalling.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  > I said that pointing out the poor practices of some cultures are likely to be viewed by members of those cultures as an attack. Which implies they want to live like this and want to uphold this culture, which is clearly stupid, and the point I have been attacking this entire thread. > I did not do this either: >> You're blaming the victims instead of helping them. Is this you? "The trouble is that you cannot actually win any argument in trying to "uplift" or "enlighten" people by asking them to reject what they consider parts of their culture." Where by what they consider to be parts of their culture, you mean "a culture which encourages primitive and superstitious practices" (which sounds like American conservatives to me), "a culture that values sports over education" (for groups that weren't allowed a proper education until the 1960s and weren't given opportunities to use an education for as long), and "a culture that normalises or encourages single parents over the alternatives." You actually believe that they want to be single parents (something that they learned from everybody they were around living that way) instead of learning about and having access to family planning, and you're blaming them for it. What do you think people are pushing for life skills, SEL, sex education, and science education in public schools for if not to fix this? > And then happily posted evidence against that claim: You're having a tough time keeping up, maybe having grown up in a conservative culture that does not value education (see how I can point out cultures that don't value education without being politically incorrect, as long as I point out how this can change?), but I did not contradict myself. These are two separate cultures, and one culture can change into another with enough political will. > I actually said that race doesn't matter. Your "evidence" you posted about the Nigerians actually supports what I said. I also said that race doesn't matter. My point was that cultures can change, which is the point I have been continuously making and the point that you have been continuously missing. "European culture" isn't uniform. There are many who have been enlightened and can think rationally, and there are many who are still superstitious and not yet capable of doing so. Their culture can be fixed, and it is not politically incorrect to say so, though many conservatives find that offensive. > you appear to have no desire for anything other than virtue signalling. Apparently, saying that a problem is fixable and supporting policies to fix them is "virtue signaling," while saying that a problem is somebody else's problem and doing nothing is actual virtue in conservative culture. At the risk of virtue signaling again, I'll say that this self-defeating culture that results in high crime societies and slow economic progress can be fixed, just like any other.

lelanthran 4y ago

> That isn't. What is a point of contention is that you think they want to live that way and that this can't be changed. I did not make that claim either. I said that pointing out the poor practices of some cultures are likely to be viewed by members of those cultures as an attack. So, no, I did not claim > people want to live that way and that this can't be changed. I did not do this either: > You're blaming the victims instead of helping them. I did not claim: > parenting doesn't matter, only the color of the child's skin. I did not > blame people who are in these situations instead of bringing about the change to fix it. You've put all those words into my mouth, and then proceeded to argue against them. You, on the other hand, actually did claim here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31707777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31707777 the following: > Children raised by uneducated parents surrounded by crime are worse off due to their environment, and their culture is a product of that environment. And then happily posted evidence against that claim: > > Tell that to children of Nigerian immigrants.https://medium.com/@joecarleton/why-nigerian-immigrants-are-the-most-successful-ethnic-group-in-the-u-s-23a7ea5a0832 https://medium.com/@joecarleton/why-nigerian-immigrants-are-... You ignored this comment of mine: > There are multiple different cultures even in the same race group! So it's quite confusing to me why you immediately and so quickly responded to a race-based argument that was never made. I actually said that race doesn't matter. Your "evidence" you posted about the Nigerians actually supports what I said. I believe you are arguing in bad faith; you appear to have no desire for anything other than virtue signalling.

lern_too_spel 4y ago
> I said that pointing out the poor practices of some cultures are likely to be viewed by members of those cultures as an attack. Which implies they want to live like this and want to uphold this culture, which is clearly stupid, and the point I have been attacking this entire thread. > I did not do this either: >> You're blaming the victims instead of helping them. Is this you? "The trouble is that you cannot actually win any argument in trying to "uplift" or "enlighten" people by asking them to reject what they consider parts of their culture." Where by what they consider to be parts of their culture, you mean "a culture which encourages primitive and superstitious practices" (which sounds like American conservatives to me), "a culture that values sports over education" (for groups that weren't allowed a proper education until the 1960s and weren't given opportunities to use an education for as long), and "a culture that normalises or encourages single parents over the alternatives." You actually believe that they want to be single parents (something that they learned from everybody they were around living that way) instead of learning about and having access to family planning, and you're blaming them for it. What do you think people are pushing for life skills, SEL, sex education, and science education in public schools for if not to fix this? > And then happily posted evidence against that claim: You're having a tough time keeping up, maybe having grown up in a conservative culture that does not value education (see how I can point out cultures that don't value education without being politically incorrect, as long as I point out how this can change?), but I did not contradict myself. These are two separate cultures, and one culture can change into another with enough political will. > I actually said that race doesn't matter. Your "evidence" you posted about the Nigerians actually supports what I said. I also said that race doesn't matter. My point was that cultures can change, which is the point I have been continuously making and the point that you have been continuously missing. "European culture" isn't uniform. There are many who have been enlightened and can think rationally, and there are many who are still superstitious and not yet capable of doing so. Their culture can be fixed, and it is not politically incorrect to say so, though many conservatives find that offensive. > you appear to have no desire for anything other than virtue signalling. Apparently, saying that a problem is fixable and supporting policies to fix them is "virtue signaling," while saying that a problem is somebody else's problem and doing nothing is actual virtue in conservative culture. At the risk of virtue signaling again, I'll say that this self-defeating culture that results in high crime societies and slow economic progress can be fixed, just like any other.