4 ms·

People who want weaker and stronger gun control laws can find consensus for the idea that trained police are the most tactically equipped to deal with an ongoin

People who want weaker and stronger gun control laws can find consensus for the idea that trained police are the most tactically equipped to deal with an ongoing crime, and that you should not interfere with professionals who are already on the scene. 40% of Uvalde's city budget is going to police. The police went in to save their own kids, but detained and chastised parents who went in to do the same. How many more trained experts with guns we do need to stop school shootings? Should townsfolk have enough guns and force on their side to subdue the police so that they can go into classrooms themselves as an impromptu tactical force?

johndevor 4y ago
Accountability is the issue. If they can tax you by force, they're not going to put themselves in harms way. They already got paid. (Generalization of course, but true in many life-and-death situations.)
- kube-system 4y ago
  Most people won't willingly die at work for any amount of money or accountability, and I don't blame them. These kinds of situations are outrageous because people want to believe in superheros, but they don't exist.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    When a group sees themselves superheroes, are treated like superheroes, put superhero slogans on their vehicles, are given weapons and armor and hazard pay based on their imminent superhero behavior, only to run and cower at the first sign of danger... Perhaps it's not the rest of us who are the problem.
    - dylan604 4y ago
      Perhaps not the superhero we want, but the superhero we deserve?
  - nescioquid 4y ago
    An antiquated notion of a profession is some "job" that has a primary responsibility to the public: nurse, doctor, lawyer, police officer, firefighter, etc. You should not go into a profession that entails personal risk if that prevents you from meeting your obligations to the public. I surely wouldn't call actually following the department's policy and training in response this event superhuman in any way, though pretending it is serves to absolve those who failed in their duty.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      There's a large difference between taking on expected amounts of risk, and engaging an active shooter. Most of the risk that police officers are expected to take on are struggling with an arrest suspect, being in the vicinity of violent people, standing along a busy roadside, or the potential of being in car accidents. Most of their obligation to the public is to show up after a crime has happened, writing a report, and investigating the high priority crimes. About 3/4 of police in the US never use their gun over their entire career.
  - johndevor 4y ago
    To protect and serve* If we could choose our police like our cell service, I'd pay for the police force that required military service or punished officers who did not act when they should
    - kube-system 4y ago
      "protect and serve" is a motto that originated from a contest in a magazine. It's not a quote from a legal text. We vote by wallet for our cell service and we vote by ballot for our police budgets. If you can only afford a house in a neighborhood with a Cricket Wireless tax base, then you get Cricket Wireless quality police.
      - johndevor 4y ago
        > We vote by wallet for our cell service and we vote by ballot for our police budgets. And you're free to start a new wireless company. But try starting a new police force and you'll get arrested. Not the same.
        kube-system 4y ago
        It is absolutely possible to create a new police force in the US, and not really that uncommon. https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/creating-your-own-police-department https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/creating-your-ow... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_police#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_police#United_States In fact, schools are a good example of this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_police#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_police#United_States Creating a new police force is probably not any harder than making an MVNO and probably much easier than acquiring spectrum to create a real wireless carrier.
SrslyJosh 4y ago
If by "chastised" you mean "threatened to tase", yep. They're also retaliating against one woman who went in to save her own kids. IIRC, she's on probation and they're trying to take her kids away now.
- insightcheck 4y ago
  For the original source, a mother first told this to CBS News in a video interview: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/mother-who-ran-into-texas-school-during-shooting-discusses-moments-inside/#x https://www.cbsnews.com/video/mother-who-ran-into-texas-scho... Online publication "The Root" paraphrased this (source: https://www.theroot.com/uvalde-mom-who-saved-her-children-says-shes-being-threa-1849028508 https://www.theroot.com/uvalde-mom-who-saved-her-children-sa...) as: "Angeli Rose Gomez told CBS News that she was informed that if she continues to talk to media about her fearless actions, she would be charged with a probation violation for obstruction of justice."
  - antongribok 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure since that time a judge ruled in her favor and the previous probation history is no longer a threat to her maintaining custody to her kids. Can't find where I saw that right now.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Thankfully, a judge nixed that threat. Still, that the threat was even made in the first place is disgusting. "But Gomez said the judge overseeing her probation told her she did not face new legal problems and that her bravery would be rewarded with a shortened probation." https://nypost.com/2022/06/04/angeli-gomez-says-she-was-threatened-by-uvalde-texas-cops/ https://nypost.com/2022/06/04/angeli-gomez-says-she-was-thre...
branon 4y ago
> Should townsfolk have enough guns and force on their side to subdue the police At any given time, yes.
yubiox 4y ago
You can watch the hundreds of videos on the PoliceActivity youtube channel showing how terrible "trained police" are at using guns (or doing anything really). Any shooting hobbyist is going to be a better shot than most police officers. My favorite video is the one where the cop empties an entire magazine at a stationary guy 7 feet away and misses every single shot. The one thing cops are really good at though is multiple cops screaming conflicting commands all at the same time. Freeze! Don't move! Hands up! Turn around! Get down on the ground!

johndevor 4y ago

Accountability is the issue. If they can tax you by force, they're not going to put themselves in harms way. They already got paid. (Generalization of course, but true in many life-and-death situations.)

kube-system 4y ago
Most people won't willingly die at work for any amount of money or accountability, and I don't blame them. These kinds of situations are outrageous because people want to believe in superheros, but they don't exist.
- falcolas 4y ago
  When a group sees themselves superheroes, are treated like superheroes, put superhero slogans on their vehicles, are given weapons and armor and hazard pay based on their imminent superhero behavior, only to run and cower at the first sign of danger... Perhaps it's not the rest of us who are the problem.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    Perhaps not the superhero we want, but the superhero we deserve?
- nescioquid 4y ago
  An antiquated notion of a profession is some "job" that has a primary responsibility to the public: nurse, doctor, lawyer, police officer, firefighter, etc. You should not go into a profession that entails personal risk if that prevents you from meeting your obligations to the public. I surely wouldn't call actually following the department's policy and training in response this event superhuman in any way, though pretending it is serves to absolve those who failed in their duty.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    There's a large difference between taking on expected amounts of risk, and engaging an active shooter. Most of the risk that police officers are expected to take on are struggling with an arrest suspect, being in the vicinity of violent people, standing along a busy roadside, or the potential of being in car accidents. Most of their obligation to the public is to show up after a crime has happened, writing a report, and investigating the high priority crimes. About 3/4 of police in the US never use their gun over their entire career.
- johndevor 4y ago
  To protect and serve* If we could choose our police like our cell service, I'd pay for the police force that required military service or punished officers who did not act when they should
  - kube-system 4y ago
    "protect and serve" is a motto that originated from a contest in a magazine. It's not a quote from a legal text. We vote by wallet for our cell service and we vote by ballot for our police budgets. If you can only afford a house in a neighborhood with a Cricket Wireless tax base, then you get Cricket Wireless quality police.
    - johndevor 4y ago
      > We vote by wallet for our cell service and we vote by ballot for our police budgets. And you're free to start a new wireless company. But try starting a new police force and you'll get arrested. Not the same.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        It is absolutely possible to create a new police force in the US, and not really that uncommon. https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/creating-your-own-police-department https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/creating-your-ow... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_police#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_police#United_States In fact, schools are a good example of this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_police#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_police#United_States Creating a new police force is probably not any harder than making an MVNO and probably much easier than acquiring spectrum to create a real wireless carrier.

SrslyJosh 4y ago

If by "chastised" you mean "threatened to tase", yep. They're also retaliating against one woman who went in to save her own kids. IIRC, she's on probation and they're trying to take her kids away now.

insightcheck 4y ago
For the original source, a mother first told this to CBS News in a video interview: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/mother-who-ran-into-texas-school-during-shooting-discusses-moments-inside/#x https://www.cbsnews.com/video/mother-who-ran-into-texas-scho... Online publication "The Root" paraphrased this (source: https://www.theroot.com/uvalde-mom-who-saved-her-children-says-shes-being-threa-1849028508 https://www.theroot.com/uvalde-mom-who-saved-her-children-sa...) as: "Angeli Rose Gomez told CBS News that she was informed that if she continues to talk to media about her fearless actions, she would be charged with a probation violation for obstruction of justice."
- antongribok 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure since that time a judge ruled in her favor and the previous probation history is no longer a threat to her maintaining custody to her kids. Can't find where I saw that right now.
- falcolas 4y ago
  Thankfully, a judge nixed that threat. Still, that the threat was even made in the first place is disgusting. "But Gomez said the judge overseeing her probation told her she did not face new legal problems and that her bravery would be rewarded with a shortened probation." https://nypost.com/2022/06/04/angeli-gomez-says-she-was-threatened-by-uvalde-texas-cops/ https://nypost.com/2022/06/04/angeli-gomez-says-she-was-thre...

branon 4y ago

> Should townsfolk have enough guns and force on their side to subdue the police At any given time, yes.

yubiox 4y ago

You can watch the hundreds of videos on the PoliceActivity youtube channel showing how terrible "trained police" are at using guns (or doing anything really). Any shooting hobbyist is going to be a better shot than most police officers. My favorite video is the one where the cop empties an entire magazine at a stationary guy 7 feet away and misses every single shot. The one thing cops are really good at though is multiple cops screaming conflicting commands all at the same time. Freeze! Don't move! Hands up! Turn around! Get down on the ground!