7 ms·

Emergency vets in many places will demand you pay $5,000 upfront (within minutes before surgery is performed) or your pet dies. Then, your pet will die anyway.

Emergency vets in many places will demand you pay $5,000 upfront (within minutes before surgery is performed) or your pet dies. Then, your pet will die anyway. It is a sad and exploitative industry.

markovbot 4y ago
> It is a sad and exploitative industry. just wait till you see what they do with human healthcare in this country
- bombcar 4y ago
  There they don't even ask, they just start treating, because they know that the emergency costs will be borne by someone.
AlotOfReading 4y ago
I've found that the people actually providing veterinary healthcare are some of the biggest animal lovers you're ever going to meet. They adore animals to frankly unhealthy degrees. If even the local family-owned vet clinic is also doing something, it's usually not because they want to exploit hurt animals and exploit you, it's motivated by the necessities of the industry. In this case, non-payment is a huge issue for vets and they need to keep their doors open for everyone else that needs care. Running a specialty like emergency medicine is even more expensive and carries higher prices as a result. They don't want to deal with trying to collect after the fact. Hence, they'll usually give two options: Pay at the time of service or sign up for something like CareCredit that will pay the vet upfront and deal with the collections on the backend. Some places offer third options, but these are usually problematic or involve charities.
- beckingz 4y ago
  Yeah, the people I know who work in veterinary healthcare love animals. Many of them end up burning out because they have to deal with so much animal death.
  - bmj 4y ago
    A handful of years ago, we had to euthanize our (very old) cat. The plan was to have an at-home come in, but his conditioned worsened, and the service couldn't accommodate us, so I ended up going to an emergency clinic. Initially, it was a bit impersonal, but I was touched by the vet who, when administering the drugs, started crying right along with me.
snapetom 4y ago
>It is a sad and exploitative industry. What an insulting, belittling comment. I don't know why you think veterinarians are charities, and don't know why feel entitled to pay people less than they're worth. Veterinarians hold doctorates. Four years of undergrad, four years of vet school. Many emergency vets are board certified, meaning they've done an additional 3+ years in internships and residencies. In running a practice, ideally you also want a 3-1 ratio of techs to doctors to monitor patients. Many states require at least an AA degree to become licensed. These days, it's common to find people who have undergrad degrees who go into vet nursing as a career. Therefore, clinics are paying for 3 others with degrees. Add in costs like support staff, and the fact that 80% of medicine and equipment are repurposed from human use. Distributors don't give a shit that it's for animals and will charge a vet clinic the same as a human hospital. Don't blame the vet for charging $5000 for a surgery. Blame owners who can't afford to raise a pet but have one anyway.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  So many HNers are libertarian right up until it concerns something they need. Then it's "why do I have to pay for that!?"
  - snapetom 4y ago
    I lost my shit at a redditor for complaining about a $500 overnight bill. $500 for a doctor and three nurses to watch over your animal like a hawk for eight hours, plus IV and medicine, is a damn bargain. I thought HN crowd would be smarter than that.
    - djcannabiz 4y ago
      In which country was this in do you know? I don't know if a price like that is even possible in the states lol
      - snapetom 4y ago
        This was pre-COVID in suburban midwest, if I recall. On the low-end of the estimate, and nothing happened that required intervention, but certainly possible in the market location. Major city? Good luck.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
As someone who knows emergency vets, you have no idea what you're talking about and this is incredibly offensive. Vets don't go into veterinary care to get rich. They get into it because they care deeply about animals. If your dog is bleeding out or not breathing, nobody is going to sit there waiting for you to swipe your card; they're going to try to at least stabilize your dog, and then talk to you about diagnostic options and so on. Emergency vets charge an up-front diagnostic fee and anything that is not "your pet will die if we don't act right now" has to be pre-paid. There are no government funded veterinary clinics. There is no legal right to emergency medical care for pets. There is no government agency guaranteeing the vet ER gets paid if the owner isn't able to, or simply refuses. Debt collectors typically pay out a fraction of any debt they agree to collect...assuming the ER can even identify them. ER vets can't put liens on your property like hospitals can. Most pets are not insured, and frankly pet insurance is a ripoff. Lots of exclusions and a lightning-fast "prior condition" reaction is how they avoid payouts. It's not regulated because in America, we don't Do That Sort Of Thing (no step on business snek, as business snek regulated by free market!) Emergency medical care for humans is the most expensive kind of medical care there is. For one species, one usually able to communicate at least on some level. Now imagine all that, multiplied by multiple species. Equipment, a pharmacy, and staff able to care for patients of almost any size, multiple species, of wildly variable temperament, who have nearly no ability to communicate or participate in their care. And who have an evolutionary drive to hide injury and pain, usually. Part of the reason ER vet care is so expensive is because they do not "demand you pay" while your pet bleeds out or sits there on the table not breathing...and when people inevitably don't pay (in part because they're people like you who shout "well my dog died anyway, why should I pay you!?"). That has to get amortized over all the people who do pay. The vast majority of pets that end up in the ER are dogs, and the vast majority of those are in the ER from getting hit by cars, into fights with other dogs, or poisoned/obstructed by things they ate - most of the time because they were not on a leash. What do you expect ER vets to do? Who pays to keep the lights on? The massive pharmacy stocked? The staff trained? The imaging equipment working? The magical pretend emergency animal care fairy?
rozap 4y ago
Yep. This happened to us. After the dog was prescribed something (bravecto) she didn't really need, which had big risks we didn't know about, so much so that the FDA issued guidance about seizure risks. She had a seizure 48 hours after we gave it to her, and was dead within 72 hours. We paid like $3k in emergency vet care before they did any work, and she died within 30 minutes of them starting on her. 2 year old collie. Edit: just looked it up and the vet in question is owned by JAB. Sorry to vent. Still makes me so angry and depressed. None of the vets wanted to entertain the fact that it was the drug, despite mountains of evidence. It doesn't feel like there's a culture of learning, just one of deflecting fault. I hate to be one of those "I've done my own research" types, but with animal care you really are on your own. This happened a few months ago, really miss that dog.

Emergency vets in many places will demand you pay $5,000 upfront (within minutes before surgery is performed) or your pet dies. Then, your pet will die anyway. It is a sad and exploitative industry.

markovbot 4y ago

> It is a sad and exploitative industry. just wait till you see what they do with human healthcare in this country

bombcar 4y ago
There they don't even ask, they just start treating, because they know that the emergency costs will be borne by someone.

AlotOfReading 4y ago

I've found that the people actually providing veterinary healthcare are some of the biggest animal lovers you're ever going to meet. They adore animals to frankly unhealthy degrees. If even the local family-owned vet clinic is also doing something, it's usually not because they want to exploit hurt animals and exploit you, it's motivated by the necessities of the industry. In this case, non-payment is a huge issue for vets and they need to keep their doors open for everyone else that needs care. Running a specialty like emergency medicine is even more expensive and carries higher prices as a result. They don't want to deal with trying to collect after the fact. Hence, they'll usually give two options: Pay at the time of service or sign up for something like CareCredit that will pay the vet upfront and deal with the collections on the backend. Some places offer third options, but these are usually problematic or involve charities.

beckingz 4y ago
Yeah, the people I know who work in veterinary healthcare love animals. Many of them end up burning out because they have to deal with so much animal death.
- bmj 4y ago
  A handful of years ago, we had to euthanize our (very old) cat. The plan was to have an at-home come in, but his conditioned worsened, and the service couldn't accommodate us, so I ended up going to an emergency clinic. Initially, it was a bit impersonal, but I was touched by the vet who, when administering the drugs, started crying right along with me.

snapetom 4y ago

>It is a sad and exploitative industry. What an insulting, belittling comment. I don't know why you think veterinarians are charities, and don't know why feel entitled to pay people less than they're worth. Veterinarians hold doctorates. Four years of undergrad, four years of vet school. Many emergency vets are board certified, meaning they've done an additional 3+ years in internships and residencies. In running a practice, ideally you also want a 3-1 ratio of techs to doctors to monitor patients. Many states require at least an AA degree to become licensed. These days, it's common to find people who have undergrad degrees who go into vet nursing as a career. Therefore, clinics are paying for 3 others with degrees. Add in costs like support staff, and the fact that 80% of medicine and equipment are repurposed from human use. Distributors don't give a shit that it's for animals and will charge a vet clinic the same as a human hospital. Don't blame the vet for charging $5000 for a surgery. Blame owners who can't afford to raise a pet but have one anyway.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
So many HNers are libertarian right up until it concerns something they need. Then it's "why do I have to pay for that!?"
- snapetom 4y ago
  I lost my shit at a redditor for complaining about a $500 overnight bill. $500 for a doctor and three nurses to watch over your animal like a hawk for eight hours, plus IV and medicine, is a damn bargain. I thought HN crowd would be smarter than that.
  - djcannabiz 4y ago
    In which country was this in do you know? I don't know if a price like that is even possible in the states lol
    - snapetom 4y ago
      This was pre-COVID in suburban midwest, if I recall. On the low-end of the estimate, and nothing happened that required intervention, but certainly possible in the market location. Major city? Good luck.

KennyBlanken 4y ago

As someone who knows emergency vets, you have no idea what you're talking about and this is incredibly offensive. Vets don't go into veterinary care to get rich. They get into it because they care deeply about animals. If your dog is bleeding out or not breathing, nobody is going to sit there waiting for you to swipe your card; they're going to try to at least stabilize your dog, and then talk to you about diagnostic options and so on. Emergency vets charge an up-front diagnostic fee and anything that is not "your pet will die if we don't act right now" has to be pre-paid. There are no government funded veterinary clinics. There is no legal right to emergency medical care for pets. There is no government agency guaranteeing the vet ER gets paid if the owner isn't able to, or simply refuses. Debt collectors typically pay out a fraction of any debt they agree to collect...assuming the ER can even identify them. ER vets can't put liens on your property like hospitals can. Most pets are not insured, and frankly pet insurance is a ripoff. Lots of exclusions and a lightning-fast "prior condition" reaction is how they avoid payouts. It's not regulated because in America, we don't Do That Sort Of Thing (no step on business snek, as business snek regulated by free market!) Emergency medical care for humans is the most expensive kind of medical care there is. For one species, one usually able to communicate at least on some level. Now imagine all that, multiplied by multiple species. Equipment, a pharmacy, and staff able to care for patients of almost any size, multiple species, of wildly variable temperament, who have nearly no ability to communicate or participate in their care. And who have an evolutionary drive to hide injury and pain, usually. Part of the reason ER vet care is so expensive is because they do not "demand you pay" while your pet bleeds out or sits there on the table not breathing...and when people inevitably don't pay (in part because they're people like you who shout "well my dog died anyway, why should I pay you!?"). That has to get amortized over all the people who do pay. The vast majority of pets that end up in the ER are dogs, and the vast majority of those are in the ER from getting hit by cars, into fights with other dogs, or poisoned/obstructed by things they ate - most of the time because they were not on a leash. What do you expect ER vets to do? Who pays to keep the lights on? The massive pharmacy stocked? The staff trained? The imaging equipment working? The magical pretend emergency animal care fairy?

rozap 4y ago

Yep. This happened to us. After the dog was prescribed something (bravecto) she didn't really need, which had big risks we didn't know about, so much so that the FDA issued guidance about seizure risks. She had a seizure 48 hours after we gave it to her, and was dead within 72 hours. We paid like $3k in emergency vet care before they did any work, and she died within 30 minutes of them starting on her. 2 year old collie. Edit: just looked it up and the vet in question is owned by JAB. Sorry to vent. Still makes me so angry and depressed. None of the vets wanted to entertain the fact that it was the drug, despite mountains of evidence. It doesn't feel like there's a culture of learning, just one of deflecting fault. I hate to be one of those "I've done my own research" types, but with animal care you really are on your own. This happened a few months ago, really miss that dog.