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> cargo install tuc Slightly off topic question about this: in Linux, are rust programs always installed like this, or should these also be made available in t

> cargo install tuc Slightly off topic question about this: in Linux, are rust programs always installed like this, or should these also be made available in the regular package manager of your distro?

elsjaako 4y ago
In general you want to install it with a package manager. (But also it's your system. What's the point of Linux if you can't do it your way)
masklinn 4y ago
> or should these also be made available in the regular package manager of your distro? Getting a package in the official repositories is quite a high bar to clear. Plus it's... not great experience for early development, as many distros will lock in the program entirely, leaving you with a very long tail of extremely outdated installs. So generally the expectation is that once a program is popular or desirable enough, and is somewhat stable, it gets integrated into the base repos.
- Aardwolf 4y ago
  Is there an equivalent for C/C++ programs? There's pip for python, npm for JS, cargo for rust For C/C++ all I know are multiple different possible build and make systems, but none works like a package manager, as far as I know Note that I don't always love when something installed with pip or npm puts files all over your OS or homedir without being managed by the package manager, though
  - ploxiln 4y ago
    ./configure --prefix=/usr/local && make && sudo make install (I consider it a feature that this doesn't automatically download and install hundreds to thousands of things I haven't even heard of)
    - mprovost 4y ago
      I mean, ignoring the fact that the configure script is often a larger program than the one you're trying to install, it (and make) can do anything to your system and unless you read the contents of each you're just taking it on faith that it isn't downloading and installing hundreds of things.
      - ploxiln 4y ago
        ... but if I'm installing curl or jq or similar, I'm quite familiar with the provenance of the project, and of the tarball I'm running a configure script from. And maybe I need to install one or two dependencies, similarly they should be familiar, or small and comprehensible, and only downloaded and installed with my explicit actions. (And yeah autoconf generated configure scripts are crazy huge and baroque, and could easily be 1/10 the size for the needed functionality, but compared to "npm install" I'll take it.)
  - masklinn 4y ago
    > Is there an equivalent for C/C++ programs? [...] For C/C++ all I know are multiple different possible build and make systems, but none works like a package manager, as far as I know Downloading the source by hand, trying to wrangle what dependencies it has not vendored (which may or may not be available through your system package managers, in versions which may or may not be recent enough), and trying to find out how to build it. Though do note that this issue can also hit when installing python, js, or rust package, if they ultimately have native dependencies. Their respective build systems will generally try to make it work out of the box, but if your configuration was not specifically tested / supported it can break with fun C-level compilation errors.
    - nickstinemates 4y ago
      The main solution to all of this complexity is another complex (but awesomely powerful) package manager called Portage. It's mainly used in Gentoo Linux It's awesome. And complicated.
      - masklinn 4y ago
        That, or Nix, maybe. Also awesome. Also complicated.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - speed_spread 4y ago
        Stop! I'm starting to miss Funtoo... And I now have all these Ryzen cores idling, longing for a world update... Must... Resist...
  - db65edfc7996 4y ago
    Perhaps not everything you want, but in Python land there is pipx [0]. Pipx will create a virtual environment per binary program so that they are all isolated from each other and put things in a consistent location (~/.local/pipx). Then it is easy enough to do `pipx install black`, `pipx install cookiecutter`, whatever. Also has nice upgrade option in `pipx upgrade-all` [0] https://pypa.github.io/pipx/ https://pypa.github.io/pipx/
  - nickstinemates 4y ago
    Yes, it's called portage and comes with Gentoo. :)
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    Perhaps the closest I've discovered is AUR in Arch.
steveklabnik 4y ago
The intention of "cargo install" is to provide a quick and easy way to distribute programs useful to other Rust programmers. In general, end users should use some other method that doesn't require having a Rust toolchain pre-installed, but doing that can take work, and so not every program pursues it.

elsjaako 4y ago

In general you want to install it with a package manager. (But also it's your system. What's the point of Linux if you can't do it your way)

masklinn 4y ago

> or should these also be made available in the regular package manager of your distro? Getting a package in the official repositories is quite a high bar to clear. Plus it's... not great experience for early development, as many distros will lock in the program entirely, leaving you with a very long tail of extremely outdated installs. So generally the expectation is that once a program is popular or desirable enough, and is somewhat stable, it gets integrated into the base repos.

Aardwolf 4y ago
Is there an equivalent for C/C++ programs? There's pip for python, npm for JS, cargo for rust For C/C++ all I know are multiple different possible build and make systems, but none works like a package manager, as far as I know Note that I don't always love when something installed with pip or npm puts files all over your OS or homedir without being managed by the package manager, though
- ploxiln 4y ago
  ./configure --prefix=/usr/local && make && sudo make install (I consider it a feature that this doesn't automatically download and install hundreds to thousands of things I haven't even heard of)
  - mprovost 4y ago
    I mean, ignoring the fact that the configure script is often a larger program than the one you're trying to install, it (and make) can do anything to your system and unless you read the contents of each you're just taking it on faith that it isn't downloading and installing hundreds of things.
    - ploxiln 4y ago
      ... but if I'm installing curl or jq or similar, I'm quite familiar with the provenance of the project, and of the tarball I'm running a configure script from. And maybe I need to install one or two dependencies, similarly they should be familiar, or small and comprehensible, and only downloaded and installed with my explicit actions. (And yeah autoconf generated configure scripts are crazy huge and baroque, and could easily be 1/10 the size for the needed functionality, but compared to "npm install" I'll take it.)
- masklinn 4y ago
  > Is there an equivalent for C/C++ programs? [...] For C/C++ all I know are multiple different possible build and make systems, but none works like a package manager, as far as I know Downloading the source by hand, trying to wrangle what dependencies it has not vendored (which may or may not be available through your system package managers, in versions which may or may not be recent enough), and trying to find out how to build it. Though do note that this issue can also hit when installing python, js, or rust package, if they ultimately have native dependencies. Their respective build systems will generally try to make it work out of the box, but if your configuration was not specifically tested / supported it can break with fun C-level compilation errors.
  - nickstinemates 4y ago
    The main solution to all of this complexity is another complex (but awesomely powerful) package manager called Portage. It's mainly used in Gentoo Linux It's awesome. And complicated.
    - masklinn 4y ago
      That, or Nix, maybe. Also awesome. Also complicated.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - speed_spread 4y ago
      Stop! I'm starting to miss Funtoo... And I now have all these Ryzen cores idling, longing for a world update... Must... Resist...
- db65edfc7996 4y ago
  Perhaps not everything you want, but in Python land there is pipx [0]. Pipx will create a virtual environment per binary program so that they are all isolated from each other and put things in a consistent location (~/.local/pipx). Then it is easy enough to do `pipx install black`, `pipx install cookiecutter`, whatever. Also has nice upgrade option in `pipx upgrade-all` [0] https://pypa.github.io/pipx/ https://pypa.github.io/pipx/
- nickstinemates 4y ago
  Yes, it's called portage and comes with Gentoo. :)
- renewiltord 4y ago
  Perhaps the closest I've discovered is AUR in Arch.

steveklabnik 4y ago

The intention of "cargo install" is to provide a quick and easy way to distribute programs useful to other Rust programmers. In general, end users should use some other method that doesn't require having a Rust toolchain pre-installed, but doing that can take work, and so not every program pursues it.