4 ms·

Note that Mozilla has nothing to do with Thunderbird anymore. They abandoned Thunderbird and it's a totally separate community project these days.

mqus 4y ago
I probably know less than you, but at least the linked donations page https://give.thunderbird.net/en-US/k9mail/ https://give.thunderbird.net/en-US/k9mail/ has heavy mozilla branding and also talks about "Mozilla Thunderbird"... thunderbird.net states at the bottom: Thunderbird is now part of MZLA Technologies Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation.
- conradev 4y ago
  Thunderbird operates independently within Mozilla: > There was a time when Thunderbird’s future was uncertain, and it was unclear what was going to happen to the project after it was decided Mozilla Corporation would no longer support it. But in recent years donations from Thunderbird users have allowed the project to grow and flourish organically within the Mozilla Foundation. Now, to ensure future operational success, following months of planning, we are forging a new path forward. Moving to MZLA Technologies Corporation will not only allow the Thunderbird project more flexibility and agility, but will also allow us to explore offering our users products and services that were not possible under the Mozilla Foundation https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/thunderbirds-new-home/ https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/thunderbirds-new-home/
  - folkrav 4y ago
    Still a far ways from having "nothing to do" with it
    - rjzzleep 4y ago
      Mozilla Foundation and Mozilla Corporation are not the same thing.
      - tomcatfish 4y ago
        To clarify, the comment in question was > Note that Mozilla has nothing to do with Thunderbird anymore. which fails to claim anything about the Mozilla Foundation or Corporation in particular.
        selcuka 4y ago
        I agree that "nothing to do" is a strong statement but it's neither "Mozilla Foundation" nor "Mozilla Corporation". It's "MZLA Technologies Corporation".
        folkrav 4y ago
        When they announced the split, I seem to remember reading it's setup pretty much the same way as the Mozilla Corporation, so as a corporate subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation.
        justinclift 4y ago
        But the page literally says: > ... MZLA Technologies Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation.
- password4321 4y ago
  Ha, Firefox should move out too!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
avian 4y ago
> Note that Mozilla has nothing to do with Thunderbird anymore. Mozilla the non-profit owns the for-profit corp who owns Thunderbird. In their own words from the footer of https://www.thunderbird.net https://www.thunderbird.net: > Thunderbird is now part of MZLA Technologies Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation.
- cookiengineer 4y ago
  ... which is in conflict with the Thunderbird FAQ [1]: > Who makes Thunderbird? > Thunderbird is developed, tested, translated and supported largely by group of dedicated volunteers, plus paid staff. Thunderbird is an independent, community driven project. Therefore its paid staff, budget and fundraising are entirely managed and overseen by the Thunderbird Council, which is elected by the Thunderbird Community. Thunderbird development is made possible by funds donated by the Thunderbird community. (Mozilla Corporation, the makers of Firefox, and Mozilla Messaging no longer develop Thunderbird. But Mozilla still supports Thunderbird by hosting many of the Thunderbird resources.) [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq#w_who-makes-thunderbird https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq#w_who-m...
  - bobajeff 4y ago
    I wonder if the future of Firefox is becoming primarily a community driven project. I kind of hope so.
  - jorams 4y ago
    There's no conflict there. Mozilla Corporation and Mozilla Foundation are separate entities, Corporation being owned by Foundation. Thunderbird is no longer developed by Corporation. It does still receive support from Foundation.
dizhn 4y ago
It's still part of mozilla the company and has a special advantage in that they can actually receive donations directly, unlike the browser project.
- zerocrates 4y ago
  Though they aren't tax deductible. So I wonder how much they actually get. Having decided to just look while writing this comment, apparently it was a couple million last year? Which doesn't seem bad.
  - MatthiasPortzel 4y ago
    Yeah, the 3 million that Thunderbird specifically got in donations last year is absurd. I suspect it’s more than any other user-facing non profit open source application.
- johannes1234321 4y ago
  > that they can actually receive donations directly, unlike the browser project. I would love to donate to the browser, while my small donation won't make it independent from Google's money it might be a small step towards it. I don't especially mind their political agenda, however that's not what I want to donate to, I have other political orgs I prefer.
Fnoord 4y ago
P=P is based on K-9 and had a material design UI long before K-9 had it. Postbox is based on Thunderbird with a more modern UI, but its Windows and macOS only (does work in Wine). I stick with FairEmail on Android for now. Its completely FOSS and in active development.
- brnt 4y ago
  I've seen P=P (or pEp) and even used it, but I've never heard anyone mention it till now. Visually it's clear its a fork of K9, but you can't find any trace of that on their website or repo (it's self hosted). Seems to be no community around it, while it seems a solid choice, especially if you use openpgp. Have you used it?
  - Fnoord 4y ago
    Sorry for not making it clear. I've used P=P (or actually the correct name is p≡p or pEp) before when FairEmail wasn't existent or in its very early days, and K-9 still did not have material design. I believe the material design got backported to K-9. This was during a time when K-9 didn't get stable releases, and was lacking on development. They also use opportunistic encryption, but I frankly just assume e-mail is insecure communication and live with that thought. I've mentioned the applications (pEp and FairEmail) various times here and elsewhere.

mqus 4y ago

I probably know less than you, but at least the linked donations page https://give.thunderbird.net/en-US/k9mail/ https://give.thunderbird.net/en-US/k9mail/ has heavy mozilla branding and also talks about "Mozilla Thunderbird"... thunderbird.net states at the bottom: Thunderbird is now part of MZLA Technologies Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation.

conradev 4y ago
Thunderbird operates independently within Mozilla: > There was a time when Thunderbird’s future was uncertain, and it was unclear what was going to happen to the project after it was decided Mozilla Corporation would no longer support it. But in recent years donations from Thunderbird users have allowed the project to grow and flourish organically within the Mozilla Foundation. Now, to ensure future operational success, following months of planning, we are forging a new path forward. Moving to MZLA Technologies Corporation will not only allow the Thunderbird project more flexibility and agility, but will also allow us to explore offering our users products and services that were not possible under the Mozilla Foundation https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/thunderbirds-new-home/ https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/thunderbirds-new-home/
- folkrav 4y ago
  Still a far ways from having "nothing to do" with it
  - rjzzleep 4y ago
    Mozilla Foundation and Mozilla Corporation are not the same thing.
    - tomcatfish 4y ago
      To clarify, the comment in question was > Note that Mozilla has nothing to do with Thunderbird anymore. which fails to claim anything about the Mozilla Foundation or Corporation in particular.
      - selcuka 4y ago
        I agree that "nothing to do" is a strong statement but it's neither "Mozilla Foundation" nor "Mozilla Corporation". It's "MZLA Technologies Corporation".
        folkrav 4y ago
        When they announced the split, I seem to remember reading it's setup pretty much the same way as the Mozilla Corporation, so as a corporate subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation.
        justinclift 4y ago
        But the page literally says: > ... MZLA Technologies Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation.
password4321 4y ago
Ha, Firefox should move out too!

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

avian 4y ago

> Note that Mozilla has nothing to do with Thunderbird anymore. Mozilla the non-profit owns the for-profit corp who owns Thunderbird. In their own words from the footer of https://www.thunderbird.net https://www.thunderbird.net: > Thunderbird is now part of MZLA Technologies Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation.

cookiengineer 4y ago
... which is in conflict with the Thunderbird FAQ [1]: > Who makes Thunderbird? > Thunderbird is developed, tested, translated and supported largely by group of dedicated volunteers, plus paid staff. Thunderbird is an independent, community driven project. Therefore its paid staff, budget and fundraising are entirely managed and overseen by the Thunderbird Council, which is elected by the Thunderbird Community. Thunderbird development is made possible by funds donated by the Thunderbird community. (Mozilla Corporation, the makers of Firefox, and Mozilla Messaging no longer develop Thunderbird. But Mozilla still supports Thunderbird by hosting many of the Thunderbird resources.) [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq#w_who-makes-thunderbird https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-faq#w_who-m...
- bobajeff 4y ago
  I wonder if the future of Firefox is becoming primarily a community driven project. I kind of hope so.
- jorams 4y ago
  There's no conflict there. Mozilla Corporation and Mozilla Foundation are separate entities, Corporation being owned by Foundation. Thunderbird is no longer developed by Corporation. It does still receive support from Foundation.

dizhn 4y ago

It's still part of mozilla the company and has a special advantage in that they can actually receive donations directly, unlike the browser project.

zerocrates 4y ago
Though they aren't tax deductible. So I wonder how much they actually get. Having decided to just look while writing this comment, apparently it was a couple million last year? Which doesn't seem bad.
- MatthiasPortzel 4y ago
  Yeah, the 3 million that Thunderbird specifically got in donations last year is absurd. I suspect it’s more than any other user-facing non profit open source application.
johannes1234321 4y ago
> that they can actually receive donations directly, unlike the browser project. I would love to donate to the browser, while my small donation won't make it independent from Google's money it might be a small step towards it. I don't especially mind their political agenda, however that's not what I want to donate to, I have other political orgs I prefer.

Fnoord 4y ago

P=P is based on K-9 and had a material design UI long before K-9 had it. Postbox is based on Thunderbird with a more modern UI, but its Windows and macOS only (does work in Wine). I stick with FairEmail on Android for now. Its completely FOSS and in active development.

brnt 4y ago
I've seen P=P (or pEp) and even used it, but I've never heard anyone mention it till now. Visually it's clear its a fork of K9, but you can't find any trace of that on their website or repo (it's self hosted). Seems to be no community around it, while it seems a solid choice, especially if you use openpgp. Have you used it?
- Fnoord 4y ago
  Sorry for not making it clear. I've used P=P (or actually the correct name is p≡p or pEp) before when FairEmail wasn't existent or in its very early days, and K-9 still did not have material design. I believe the material design got backported to K-9. This was during a time when K-9 didn't get stable releases, and was lacking on development. They also use opportunistic encryption, but I frankly just assume e-mail is insecure communication and live with that thought. I've mentioned the applications (pEp and FairEmail) various times here and elsewhere.