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Yes, it is. Someone can self-identify as a gender (among other things), alter their appearance to present as such, and a kind and empathetic society will (shou

Yes, it is. Someone can self-identify as a gender (among other things), alter their appearance to present as such, and a kind and empathetic society will (should) then regard them as such.

swayvil 4y ago
It sounds to me like 2 different uses of "identity". One for distinguishing an individual. The other for asserting a narrative. That's 2 quite different uses.
- dmonitor 4y ago
  When you introduce yourself, you likely give a name. This was probably a name given to you, but really it could be anything you want. People call you that name out of courtesy. You "identity" is heavily influenced by how you want to be identified Like your username. We call you by it because it is the name you chose and present to us
  - swayvil 4y ago
    We use the name I specify because it's useful to do so. No courtesy. Just utility. And if I had a distinguishing feature, that would be used to identify me too. If I wear a big hat then I will be identified as a big-hat-wearer. When asked to distinguish me in a crowd they will say, "that guy with the big hat". Telling everybody that I actually identify as a small-hat-wearer will make zero functional difference. That's how distinguishing features work.
ranjit_holmes 4y ago
- multiplegeorges 4y ago
  Interesting, I didn't think any part of what I wrote would be seen as controversial. > Someone can self-identify as a gender (among other things), I do this everyday. It happens to match my biological sex, but it doesn't have to. This is probably what makes some people uncomfortable, but a biologically determined gender binary is hardly a universal human truth. > alter their appearance to present as such, We all alter our appearances to present in a way we find most useful, pleasing, or comforting. This doesn't seem controversial. > and a kind and empathetic society will (should) then regard them as such. I would hope that this part isn't controversial and would be something we all aspire to. In contrast, I believe that the contexts you've provided (prisons, sports, locker rooms) have been demonstrated to be largely politically motivated controversies with very little real-world evidence for the claimed harms. A similar situation exists for the medical claims. I believe you're alluding to medical interventions for gender reassignment for young trans people. There have been studies[1] showing that the interventions significantly lower suicidal ideation: > "Among transgender adults in the United States who have wanted pubertal suppression, access to this treatment is associated with lower odds of lifetime suicidal ideation." [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/
  - ranjit_holmes 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - swayvil 4y ago
      - ranjit_holmes 4y ago
        I guess it's down to a mixture of it being a very controversial issue (though I think it shouldn't be that much, at least on the topics I mentioned) and one that is currently being used by political operators to stoke division. On that note, I also find it quite interesting that both the conservative right and the subset of the left that are radical feminists and/or gender critical are taking a similar stance on this issue. Though for fundamentally different reasons of course. Some issues really are bipartisan, I guess.

Yes, it is. Someone can self-identify as a gender (among other things), alter their appearance to present as such, and a kind and empathetic society will (should) then regard them as such.

swayvil 4y ago

It sounds to me like 2 different uses of "identity". One for distinguishing an individual. The other for asserting a narrative. That's 2 quite different uses.

dmonitor 4y ago
When you introduce yourself, you likely give a name. This was probably a name given to you, but really it could be anything you want. People call you that name out of courtesy. You "identity" is heavily influenced by how you want to be identified Like your username. We call you by it because it is the name you chose and present to us
- swayvil 4y ago
  We use the name I specify because it's useful to do so. No courtesy. Just utility. And if I had a distinguishing feature, that would be used to identify me too. If I wear a big hat then I will be identified as a big-hat-wearer. When asked to distinguish me in a crowd they will say, "that guy with the big hat". Telling everybody that I actually identify as a small-hat-wearer will make zero functional difference. That's how distinguishing features work.

ranjit_holmes 4y ago

multiplegeorges 4y ago
Interesting, I didn't think any part of what I wrote would be seen as controversial. > Someone can self-identify as a gender (among other things), I do this everyday. It happens to match my biological sex, but it doesn't have to. This is probably what makes some people uncomfortable, but a biologically determined gender binary is hardly a universal human truth. > alter their appearance to present as such, We all alter our appearances to present in a way we find most useful, pleasing, or comforting. This doesn't seem controversial. > and a kind and empathetic society will (should) then regard them as such. I would hope that this part isn't controversial and would be something we all aspire to. In contrast, I believe that the contexts you've provided (prisons, sports, locker rooms) have been demonstrated to be largely politically motivated controversies with very little real-world evidence for the claimed harms. A similar situation exists for the medical claims. I believe you're alluding to medical interventions for gender reassignment for young trans people. There have been studies[1] showing that the interventions significantly lower suicidal ideation: > "Among transgender adults in the United States who have wanted pubertal suppression, access to this treatment is associated with lower odds of lifetime suicidal ideation." [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/
- ranjit_holmes 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - swayvil 4y ago
    - ranjit_holmes 4y ago
      I guess it's down to a mixture of it being a very controversial issue (though I think it shouldn't be that much, at least on the topics I mentioned) and one that is currently being used by political operators to stoke division. On that note, I also find it quite interesting that both the conservative right and the subset of the left that are radical feminists and/or gender critical are taking a similar stance on this issue. Though for fundamentally different reasons of course. Some issues really are bipartisan, I guess.