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meanwhile anybody who has their own keys is able to transact with it as per usual. “not your keys not your coin.” holding keys are not trivial but far simpler t

meanwhile anybody who has their own keys is able to transact with it as per usual. “not your keys not your coin.” holding keys are not trivial but far simpler than running a server, better analogy might be to do with people not wanting to stake with a validator because it’s easier to use a centralized staking service.

TheHypnotist 4y ago
I wonder if that's even a majority of bitcoin owners. I use the term owners loosely.
- saurik 4y ago
  Does it even matter? What is interesting and actually-important is that it is even possible. Just because most people do something dumb doesn't mean we should throw up our hands in defeat and build systems where it isn't even possible to do something smart.
  - rglover 4y ago
    This is the greatest comment I've read on HN in years.
  - TheHypnotist 4y ago
    It matters very much who the owner is of the currency you are saying can be transacted. If a large chunk of bitcoin adopters don't own the currency, can't transact, and can't withdraw into fiat, what do you have exactly? Just a theory that this could work if just everyone played by a very specific set of rules.
    - saurik 4y ago
      I honestly don't understand how you can possibly come to that conclusion, and in all honesty that people like you exist is part of why tech is so demoralizing these days. If a large chunk of Bitcoin adopters--or smart phone adopters or Internet users or ANYTHING--don't know how the technology they are using works and put themselves in a bad situation with it, it simply doesn't mean that the technology doesn't work... it just doesn't; and it certainly doesn't mean we should just give up and re-centralize everything. If you build something that can't be used wrong--or hell: that most people who aren't trained don't use wrong--you probably built something evil :/.
      - TheHypnotist 4y ago
        The fact that you don't understand means that you are looking at this through some very rosey glasses. The principle of blockchain and decentralization is fine, but we've come full circle where the easiest way to access and track the only marginally useful implementation of blockchain is through a centralized service. So far, the biggest headlines from blockchain and bitcoin have been fraud. The biggest adoption came when people saw that money (fiat) could be made off of "investing". Bitcoin is a clown show. Blockchain, while probably useful, just doesn't seem to have any truly great applications yet.
- tatertots1234 4y ago
  amount of BTC on exchanges is something like < 14% of its total circulating supply.
  - TheHypnotist 4y ago
    I read somewhere that a not so insignificant sum is held by accounts that just hold.
DebtDeflation 4y ago
Transacting with it is one thing, withdrawing into fiat is quite another. Let's not pretend that most people holding BTC are holding it to buy goods and services rather than as a speculative vehicle.
- nytesky 4y ago
  Oh sorry I repeated you!
- tatertots1234 4y ago
  Sure. many of those speculators will be forced to wait for Binance to resume BTC orders, or use another centralized exchange, or use a bridge to swap BTC to another crypto asset.. Edit: swapping BTC needs a centralized bridge as child commenter notes
  - renonce 4y ago
    Unfortunately there is no decentralized exchange for BTC. There is no smart contracts on BTC so you have to somehow bridge it to something like Ethereum before you can swap it. And to bridge it you have to rely on some centralized party, such as WBTC. (I know renBTC but it's unclear who their validators are so I'd just assume it's centralized)
    - throwaaay103948 4y ago
      Bisq is a P2P Decentralized exchange for Bitcoin: https://bisq.network https://bisq.network
    - Blahah 4y ago
      > Unfortunately there is no decentralized exchange for BTC Localbitcoins, localmonero... Two of many.
    - TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
      >There is no smart contracts on BTC Not true, BTC does have smart contracts. They called it op-code and most people don't use it anymore, but me and my friends built a poker game and we play every Thursday. The original wallet download also had a poker game, but they decided to take it out after a while to ensure btc wasn't labeled as "Gambling"
nytesky 4y ago
If all the exchanges lock users out, you can “transact” with BTC But can you convert it into US dollars? Where does one spend BTC these days, buy some furniture off overstock?
- tatertots1234 4y ago
  there will always be some method of exchange. one exchange goes down, another will take its place.
- swamp40 4y ago
  Where does one spend gold these days?
  - giaour 4y ago
    Pawn shop? Or maybe at a supervillain's lair, where sellers are known to accept briefcases full of gold. Usually you need to convert your gold to a legal tender currency in order to be able to spend it. You normally lose money on the conversion at a retail volume, though.
kkielhofner 4y ago
There is a very real calculation to be done here: Leave it on an exchange and have access to customer support, etc in the event you get locked out of your account or whatever. -OR- Be the next news story of the person who messed up the transfer, forget their seed, etc. The entire blockchain ecosystem is still so incredibly difficult to use with bad UI/UX on top of it that this is the more likely outcome for the vast majority of people.
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  Making you dig through a garbage dump is what I consider bad UI/UX. Richard & Gilfoyle At Landfill Site Talking ICO Crypto currency Idea To Russ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEjaZw95kI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEjaZw95kI
  - FabHK 4y ago
    "Again, Richard: The math is sound." - brilliant.
  - kkielhofner 4y ago
    From memory (didn't watch the clip): "THUMB DRIVE, that's a thumb"

TheHypnotist 4y ago

I wonder if that's even a majority of bitcoin owners. I use the term owners loosely.

saurik 4y ago
Does it even matter? What is interesting and actually-important is that it is even possible. Just because most people do something dumb doesn't mean we should throw up our hands in defeat and build systems where it isn't even possible to do something smart.
- rglover 4y ago
  This is the greatest comment I've read on HN in years.
- TheHypnotist 4y ago
  It matters very much who the owner is of the currency you are saying can be transacted. If a large chunk of bitcoin adopters don't own the currency, can't transact, and can't withdraw into fiat, what do you have exactly? Just a theory that this could work if just everyone played by a very specific set of rules.
  - saurik 4y ago
    I honestly don't understand how you can possibly come to that conclusion, and in all honesty that people like you exist is part of why tech is so demoralizing these days. If a large chunk of Bitcoin adopters--or smart phone adopters or Internet users or ANYTHING--don't know how the technology they are using works and put themselves in a bad situation with it, it simply doesn't mean that the technology doesn't work... it just doesn't; and it certainly doesn't mean we should just give up and re-centralize everything. If you build something that can't be used wrong--or hell: that most people who aren't trained don't use wrong--you probably built something evil :/.
    - TheHypnotist 4y ago
      The fact that you don't understand means that you are looking at this through some very rosey glasses. The principle of blockchain and decentralization is fine, but we've come full circle where the easiest way to access and track the only marginally useful implementation of blockchain is through a centralized service. So far, the biggest headlines from blockchain and bitcoin have been fraud. The biggest adoption came when people saw that money (fiat) could be made off of "investing". Bitcoin is a clown show. Blockchain, while probably useful, just doesn't seem to have any truly great applications yet.
tatertots1234 4y ago
amount of BTC on exchanges is something like < 14% of its total circulating supply.
- TheHypnotist 4y ago
  I read somewhere that a not so insignificant sum is held by accounts that just hold.

DebtDeflation 4y ago

Transacting with it is one thing, withdrawing into fiat is quite another. Let's not pretend that most people holding BTC are holding it to buy goods and services rather than as a speculative vehicle.

nytesky 4y ago
Oh sorry I repeated you!
tatertots1234 4y ago
Sure. many of those speculators will be forced to wait for Binance to resume BTC orders, or use another centralized exchange, or use a bridge to swap BTC to another crypto asset.. Edit: swapping BTC needs a centralized bridge as child commenter notes
- renonce 4y ago
  Unfortunately there is no decentralized exchange for BTC. There is no smart contracts on BTC so you have to somehow bridge it to something like Ethereum before you can swap it. And to bridge it you have to rely on some centralized party, such as WBTC. (I know renBTC but it's unclear who their validators are so I'd just assume it's centralized)
  - throwaaay103948 4y ago
    Bisq is a P2P Decentralized exchange for Bitcoin: https://bisq.network https://bisq.network
  - Blahah 4y ago
    > Unfortunately there is no decentralized exchange for BTC Localbitcoins, localmonero... Two of many.
  - TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
    >There is no smart contracts on BTC Not true, BTC does have smart contracts. They called it op-code and most people don't use it anymore, but me and my friends built a poker game and we play every Thursday. The original wallet download also had a poker game, but they decided to take it out after a while to ensure btc wasn't labeled as "Gambling"

nytesky 4y ago

If all the exchanges lock users out, you can “transact” with BTC But can you convert it into US dollars? Where does one spend BTC these days, buy some furniture off overstock?

tatertots1234 4y ago
there will always be some method of exchange. one exchange goes down, another will take its place.
swamp40 4y ago
Where does one spend gold these days?
- giaour 4y ago
  Pawn shop? Or maybe at a supervillain's lair, where sellers are known to accept briefcases full of gold. Usually you need to convert your gold to a legal tender currency in order to be able to spend it. You normally lose money on the conversion at a retail volume, though.

kkielhofner 4y ago

There is a very real calculation to be done here: Leave it on an exchange and have access to customer support, etc in the event you get locked out of your account or whatever. -OR- Be the next news story of the person who messed up the transfer, forget their seed, etc. The entire blockchain ecosystem is still so incredibly difficult to use with bad UI/UX on top of it that this is the more likely outcome for the vast majority of people.

DonHopkins 4y ago
Making you dig through a garbage dump is what I consider bad UI/UX. Richard & Gilfoyle At Landfill Site Talking ICO Crypto currency Idea To Russ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEjaZw95kI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEjaZw95kI
- FabHK 4y ago
  "Again, Richard: The math is sound." - brilliant.
- kkielhofner 4y ago
  From memory (didn't watch the clip): "THUMB DRIVE, that's a thumb"