8 ms·

not your keys not your coins. nothing to see here

by naraga 4y ago

wfhordie 4y ago
Crypto is user hostile then? Got it
- rvz 4y ago
  Nope. The point is you store your crypto on a non-custodial software wallet (Metamask) or a hardware wallet (Ledger Nano) and not on an exchange, so it cannot be 'held hostage'. It is not your keys, not your coins if it is on an exchange which uses custodial wallets, but doesn't apply if it is on a non-custodial wallet.
  - dhsysusbsjsi 4y ago
    This statement bugs me because it is a large source of confusion for new people. Your funds are spendable by your private key. Your private key is stored on Metamask, Ledger or a piece of paper. It’s an important distinction to make. Your hardware wallet is just a custodian of your private key.
    - benjaminwootton 4y ago
      That bugs me too. Almost every document out there talks about storing coins in your wallet. It’s actually a private key in there. Maybe with the right language, more people might be tempted to hold their own keys and eschew centralised exchanges.
  - namaria 4y ago
    You either have a healthy ecosystem or you don't.
  - woodpanel 4y ago
    Thanks for highlighting the bad UX of crypto currencies, as it provides a nice segue into the financial danger that UX causes, as it creates customer-demand for simplifications that exchanges provide – so every time an exchange does something rugpull-ish we're actually testing how much of crypto's market-cap is based on maybe not-so-sturdy confidence of retail investors...
  - lvturner 4y ago
    This is great if I want to store it, or spend it on places that accept Bitcoin (or other coins) but what if I want to exchange it for another currency? Seems to me only two options, an exchange or a face to face trade?
    - barnabee 4y ago
      You can use something like https://bisq.network/ https://bisq.network/
- kmac_ 4y ago
  "Always has been."
- mrkramer 4y ago
  Speaking of Bitcoin; Satoshi was an excellent C++ programmer but s/he wasn't quite good at creating GUI and "Crypto" consumer apps that's why s/he open sourced it and left it to the community to build upon it and expand the Bitcoin ecosystem. Btw at the time Bitcoin was in the experimental phase and Satoshi left the Bitcoin community pretty early that's why "Crypto" was user hostile and maybe still is.
  - mempko 4y ago
    Satosh was NOT an excellent C++ programmer. As someone who heavily dug into bitcoin code, the whole thing was a mess from the beginning. Poorly architected. Insane amount of global variables. It was just a huge mess and still is. IMO it was initially written by someone deep in government (but I have no proof, just my opinion from looking at the code).
    - mrkramer 4y ago
      >Satoshi was NOT an excellent C++ programmer. I'm not a programmer but that is what Gavin Andresen said[1]; he said something like this "Satoshi was an excellent C++ programmer but he wasn't a cryptographer" and "Satoshi wasn't familiar with Cryptography 101" in a sense that Satoshi was sometimes mixing up basic cryptographic concepts. And yea I know Bitcoin had plenty of bugs I heard of notorious Value overflow incident[2]. >IMO it was initially written by someone deep in government (but I have no proof, just my opinion from looking at the code). My assumption is someone from the academia e.g. university professor. Maybe someone who was teaching freshmen basics of Computer Science and basic C++ programming then your point might be valid that Bitcoin's codebase was poorly written looking from the practical and from the professional point of view. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3e1Pzu7iI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3e1Pzu7iI [2] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident
- koonsolo 4y ago
  So is command line, but that doesn't mean it has no value.
colpabar 4y ago
"real crypto has never been tried"
- caslon 4y ago
  I dislike cryptocurrency, generally, but plenty of people hold their own keys. It's rarer, now, but that's because mass consumers are generally stupid, not because the technology is flawed. If you can do the correct thing, and you choose not to (or just are ignorant enough to not do the correct thing), it's kind of your fault. I still think we should legislate it, but let's be honest: Most people who lose, here, kind of deserve it, for not doing the bare minimum of research.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    This doesn't have much to do with people being stupid. If you want to trade more than once a month, you pretty much have to keep the funds on an exchange. Otherwise transfer fees would kill any profit you made. If you're not trading often, you may still want to take the risk due to free in-exchange transfers.
    - naraga 4y ago
      so, either trade on exchanges with Lighntning or pick the one at least in jurisdiction that gives you some kind of protection like if you held money for any other service / broker.
    - koonsolo 4y ago
      Once Ethereum goes to PoS, let's hope those transfers become cheap enough to compete with centralised exchanges.
      - naraga 4y ago
        PoS has nothing to do with fees being high or low.
        4y ago

not your keys not your coins. nothing to see here

by naraga 4y ago

not your keys not your coins. nothing to see here

wfhordie 4y ago

Crypto is user hostile then? Got it

rvz 4y ago
Nope. The point is you store your crypto on a non-custodial software wallet (Metamask) or a hardware wallet (Ledger Nano) and not on an exchange, so it cannot be 'held hostage'. It is not your keys, not your coins if it is on an exchange which uses custodial wallets, but doesn't apply if it is on a non-custodial wallet.
- dhsysusbsjsi 4y ago
  This statement bugs me because it is a large source of confusion for new people. Your funds are spendable by your private key. Your private key is stored on Metamask, Ledger or a piece of paper. It’s an important distinction to make. Your hardware wallet is just a custodian of your private key.
  - benjaminwootton 4y ago
    That bugs me too. Almost every document out there talks about storing coins in your wallet. It’s actually a private key in there. Maybe with the right language, more people might be tempted to hold their own keys and eschew centralised exchanges.
- namaria 4y ago
  You either have a healthy ecosystem or you don't.
- woodpanel 4y ago
  Thanks for highlighting the bad UX of crypto currencies, as it provides a nice segue into the financial danger that UX causes, as it creates customer-demand for simplifications that exchanges provide – so every time an exchange does something rugpull-ish we're actually testing how much of crypto's market-cap is based on maybe not-so-sturdy confidence of retail investors...
- lvturner 4y ago
  This is great if I want to store it, or spend it on places that accept Bitcoin (or other coins) but what if I want to exchange it for another currency? Seems to me only two options, an exchange or a face to face trade?
  - barnabee 4y ago
    You can use something like https://bisq.network/ https://bisq.network/
kmac_ 4y ago
"Always has been."
mrkramer 4y ago
Speaking of Bitcoin; Satoshi was an excellent C++ programmer but s/he wasn't quite good at creating GUI and "Crypto" consumer apps that's why s/he open sourced it and left it to the community to build upon it and expand the Bitcoin ecosystem. Btw at the time Bitcoin was in the experimental phase and Satoshi left the Bitcoin community pretty early that's why "Crypto" was user hostile and maybe still is.
- mempko 4y ago
  Satosh was NOT an excellent C++ programmer. As someone who heavily dug into bitcoin code, the whole thing was a mess from the beginning. Poorly architected. Insane amount of global variables. It was just a huge mess and still is. IMO it was initially written by someone deep in government (but I have no proof, just my opinion from looking at the code).
  - mrkramer 4y ago
    >Satoshi was NOT an excellent C++ programmer. I'm not a programmer but that is what Gavin Andresen said[1]; he said something like this "Satoshi was an excellent C++ programmer but he wasn't a cryptographer" and "Satoshi wasn't familiar with Cryptography 101" in a sense that Satoshi was sometimes mixing up basic cryptographic concepts. And yea I know Bitcoin had plenty of bugs I heard of notorious Value overflow incident[2]. >IMO it was initially written by someone deep in government (but I have no proof, just my opinion from looking at the code). My assumption is someone from the academia e.g. university professor. Maybe someone who was teaching freshmen basics of Computer Science and basic C++ programming then your point might be valid that Bitcoin's codebase was poorly written looking from the practical and from the professional point of view. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3e1Pzu7iI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3e1Pzu7iI [2] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident
koonsolo 4y ago
So is command line, but that doesn't mean it has no value.

colpabar 4y ago

"real crypto has never been tried"

caslon 4y ago
I dislike cryptocurrency, generally, but plenty of people hold their own keys. It's rarer, now, but that's because mass consumers are generally stupid, not because the technology is flawed. If you can do the correct thing, and you choose not to (or just are ignorant enough to not do the correct thing), it's kind of your fault. I still think we should legislate it, but let's be honest: Most people who lose, here, kind of deserve it, for not doing the bare minimum of research.
- viraptor 4y ago
  This doesn't have much to do with people being stupid. If you want to trade more than once a month, you pretty much have to keep the funds on an exchange. Otherwise transfer fees would kill any profit you made. If you're not trading often, you may still want to take the risk due to free in-exchange transfers.
  - naraga 4y ago
    so, either trade on exchanges with Lighntning or pick the one at least in jurisdiction that gives you some kind of protection like if you held money for any other service / broker.
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    Once Ethereum goes to PoS, let's hope those transfers become cheap enough to compete with centralised exchanges.
    - naraga 4y ago
      PoS has nothing to do with fees being high or low.
      - 4y ago