6 ms·

Maybe look into stablecoins a bit more closely, what you say only applies to a subset of them.

by t_mann 4y ago

ceejayoz 4y ago
Which stablecoins are verifiably - via true audits, not the attestations they all love to tout - storing their money in USD and nothing but USD?
- t_mann 4y ago
  There exist overcollateralized decentralized stablecoins. Look into DAI as the most prominent example.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Being overcollateralized doesn't save you if the value of the collateral tanks beyond your capacity to rapidly unload. edit: Tron itself bragged about their overcollateralization. https://medium.com/@usddio/usdd-upgrades-into-the-first-over-collateralized-decentralized-stablecoin-20907b81aec9 https://medium.com/@usddio/usdd-upgrades-into-the-first-over... > “Spearheading the Stablecoin 3.0 era, the upgraded, over-collateralized USDD will add more diversified features to underpin its stability,” said H.E. Justin Sun, Founder of TRON. “The $10 billion reserves pledged by the TDR will enable USDD to become the most reliable decentralized stablecoin with the highest collateral ratio in blockchain history. Currently, the 200%+ collateral ratio offers USDD a very strong safety net.”
    - t_mann 4y ago
      Nothing is 100% safe, but >150% overcollateralization is a rather decent buffer, even after accounting for crypto volatility. As a comparison, banks usually operate with less than 5% equity, and that's based on rather optimistic book values, as indicated by often significantly lower market capitalizations.
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        Any comparison that ignores the fact that banks have the FDIC backing up their depositors is a poor one.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > >150% overcollateralization is a rather decent buffer, even after accounting for crypto volatility Oof, I remember people saying this before 2008.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  USDC by Circle, holds only cash and US government bonds. They are considered the safest stable coin. They are on-shore in the U.S. and registered as a money transmitter. They do get frequent audits but that being said USDC itself is not FDIC insured, so there's still higher risk than a bank account. https://www.circle.com/en/usdc https://www.circle.com/en/usdc Then there are truly collateralized stable coins, like DAI, which work off an automated system of collateralized on-chain deposits. DAI is borrowed into existence up to a limit. If a borrower's collateral gets within a threshold of going under water (depending on collateral risk params, could be 150%), they can get liquidated and their assets are sold to cover their debt. DAI is the most established of the "decentralized" stable coins. It was formed in 2017 by MakerDAO. All CDPs are on chain, and auditable. https://daistats.com/#/ https://daistats.com/#/ USDD literally launched within the past 60 days, right about when UST was going bust. These coins are algo ponzis that are not fully backed and promise exorbitant interest rates which are completely unsustainable.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    No, USDC doesn't get audits, and they stopped publishing their reserve breakdown in their attestations; compare September 2021 (page four) as an example against the more recent ones. https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency > Top five accounting services firm Grant Thornton LLP issues attestations each month on the US dollar denominated reserves that back the USDC tokens in circulation. Same trick Tether pulled for years. https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-ends-virtual-currency-trading-platform-bitfinexs-illegal https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-... > However, the very next day, on November 2, 2018, Tether began to transfer funds out of its account, ultimately moving hundreds of millions of dollars from Tether’s bank accounts to Bitfinex’s accounts. And so, as of November 2, 2018 — one day after their latest ‘verification’ — tethers were again no longer backed one-to-one by U.S. dollars in a Tether bank account.
    - TameAntelope 4y ago
      It's not the "same trick", because they're not doing any of the shit Tether is doing. Honestly it's wildly irresponsible to just claim without evidence that USDC isn't what it claims to be. With Tether, there was tons of evidence. With USDC, there's absolutely zero. Also, "attestations" aren't meaningless. They're not full audits, but they're not meaningless.
- 323 4y ago
  GeminiUSD is approved by US regulators: > Gemini and the GUSD benefit from the direct supervision and regulatory oversight of the New York State Department of Financial Services (NYDFS). Gemini began issuing Gemini Dollars on September 9, 2018, making the GUSD among the first regulated stablecoins in the world. https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/gusd-stablecoin-gemini-dollar https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/gusd-stablecoin-gemini-do... > Each GUSD corresponds to a U.S. dollar held by Gemini in accounts at U.S. FDIC-insured bank accounts and money market funds holding short-term U.S. treasury bonds and maintained at a custodian. The cash portion of these GUSD reserves may be eligible for FDIC “pass through” insurance for Gemini customers, in the event of the failure of a bank holding the U.S. dollar deposit portion of the GUSD reserves. https://www.gemini.com/dollar https://www.gemini.com/dollar
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Gemini lies. https://www.gemini.com/dollar https://www.gemini.com/dollar The page: "Review the Gemini dollar reserve-funds independent accountant audit reports..." The "audit": "Our examination was conducted in accordance with ATTESTATION standards established by the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants." Attestations are not audits; they are different in very important ways. "I have $1,000 in the bank" is an attestation. "I have $1,000 in the bank, but I owe $2,000 in mortgage payments tomorrow" is an audit. Tether got caught pulling this trick; they'd get Bitfinex to transfer money into their accounts the day before an attestation, and move it out the day after. https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-ends-virtual-currency-trading-platform-bitfinexs-illegal https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-... > However, the very next day, on November 2, 2018, Tether began to transfer funds out of its account, ultimately moving hundreds of millions of dollars from Tether’s bank accounts to Bitfinex’s accounts. And so, as of November 2, 2018 — one day after their latest ‘verification’ — tethers were again no longer backed one-to-one by U.S. dollars in a Tether bank account.
    - 323 4y ago
      As stated in the document, the audit firm is required by law "to obtain evidence about Management Assertion". Is not just a rubber stamp. So far you have not provided any evidence about Gemini lying, just whataboutism about Tether.
- kolinko 4y ago
  Maker - doesn't hold USD at all, but maintains the peg through the collateral that is auditable and managed through smart contracts.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    We're on a thread about Tron's collapsing. https://medium.com/@usddio/usdd-upgrades-into-the-first-over-collateralized-decentralized-stablecoin-20907b81aec9 https://medium.com/@usddio/usdd-upgrades-into-the-first-over... > The TRON DAO Reserve is currently holding 10,500 BTC, 240 million USDT, and 1.9 billion TRX in the reserve account, on top of the 8.29 billion TRX already in the burning contract. The real-time collateral ratio is now over 200% — a total $1.37 billion of assets backing the 667 million USDD in circulation. Collateralization won't save you if the collateral isn't in USD.

Maybe look into stablecoins a bit more closely, what you say only applies to a subset of them.

by t_mann 4y ago

Maybe look into stablecoins a bit more closely, what you say only applies to a subset of them.

Which stablecoins are verifiably - via true audits, not the attestations they all love to tout - storing their money in USD and nothing but USD?

t_mann 4y ago
There exist overcollateralized decentralized stablecoins. Look into DAI as the most prominent example.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Being overcollateralized doesn't save you if the value of the collateral tanks beyond your capacity to rapidly unload. edit: Tron itself bragged about their overcollateralization. https://medium.com/@usddio/usdd-upgrades-into-the-first-over-collateralized-decentralized-stablecoin-20907b81aec9 https://medium.com/@usddio/usdd-upgrades-into-the-first-over... > “Spearheading the Stablecoin 3.0 era, the upgraded, over-collateralized USDD will add more diversified features to underpin its stability,” said H.E. Justin Sun, Founder of TRON. “The $10 billion reserves pledged by the TDR will enable USDD to become the most reliable decentralized stablecoin with the highest collateral ratio in blockchain history. Currently, the 200%+ collateral ratio offers USDD a very strong safety net.”
  - t_mann 4y ago
    Nothing is 100% safe, but >150% overcollateralization is a rather decent buffer, even after accounting for crypto volatility. As a comparison, banks usually operate with less than 5% equity, and that's based on rather optimistic book values, as indicated by often significantly lower market capitalizations.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Any comparison that ignores the fact that banks have the FDIC backing up their depositors is a poor one.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > >150% overcollateralization is a rather decent buffer, even after accounting for crypto volatility Oof, I remember people saying this before 2008.
chrisco255 4y ago
USDC by Circle, holds only cash and US government bonds. They are considered the safest stable coin. They are on-shore in the U.S. and registered as a money transmitter. They do get frequent audits but that being said USDC itself is not FDIC insured, so there's still higher risk than a bank account. https://www.circle.com/en/usdc https://www.circle.com/en/usdc Then there are truly collateralized stable coins, like DAI, which work off an automated system of collateralized on-chain deposits. DAI is borrowed into existence up to a limit. If a borrower's collateral gets within a threshold of going under water (depending on collateral risk params, could be 150%), they can get liquidated and their assets are sold to cover their debt. DAI is the most established of the "decentralized" stable coins. It was formed in 2017 by MakerDAO. All CDPs are on chain, and auditable. https://daistats.com/#/ https://daistats.com/#/ USDD literally launched within the past 60 days, right about when UST was going bust. These coins are algo ponzis that are not fully backed and promise exorbitant interest rates which are completely unsustainable.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  No, USDC doesn't get audits, and they stopped publishing their reserve breakdown in their attestations; compare September 2021 (page four) as an example against the more recent ones. https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency > Top five accounting services firm Grant Thornton LLP issues attestations each month on the US dollar denominated reserves that back the USDC tokens in circulation. Same trick Tether pulled for years. https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-ends-virtual-currency-trading-platform-bitfinexs-illegal https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-... > However, the very next day, on November 2, 2018, Tether began to transfer funds out of its account, ultimately moving hundreds of millions of dollars from Tether’s bank accounts to Bitfinex’s accounts. And so, as of November 2, 2018 — one day after their latest ‘verification’ — tethers were again no longer backed one-to-one by U.S. dollars in a Tether bank account.
  - TameAntelope 4y ago
    It's not the "same trick", because they're not doing any of the shit Tether is doing. Honestly it's wildly irresponsible to just claim without evidence that USDC isn't what it claims to be. With Tether, there was tons of evidence. With USDC, there's absolutely zero. Also, "attestations" aren't meaningless. They're not full audits, but they're not meaningless.
323 4y ago
GeminiUSD is approved by US regulators: > Gemini and the GUSD benefit from the direct supervision and regulatory oversight of the New York State Department of Financial Services (NYDFS). Gemini began issuing Gemini Dollars on September 9, 2018, making the GUSD among the first regulated stablecoins in the world. https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/gusd-stablecoin-gemini-dollar https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/gusd-stablecoin-gemini-do... > Each GUSD corresponds to a U.S. dollar held by Gemini in accounts at U.S. FDIC-insured bank accounts and money market funds holding short-term U.S. treasury bonds and maintained at a custodian. The cash portion of these GUSD reserves may be eligible for FDIC “pass through” insurance for Gemini customers, in the event of the failure of a bank holding the U.S. dollar deposit portion of the GUSD reserves. https://www.gemini.com/dollar https://www.gemini.com/dollar
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Gemini lies. https://www.gemini.com/dollar https://www.gemini.com/dollar The page: "Review the Gemini dollar reserve-funds independent accountant audit reports..." The "audit": "Our examination was conducted in accordance with ATTESTATION standards established by the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants." Attestations are not audits; they are different in very important ways. "I have $1,000 in the bank" is an attestation. "I have $1,000 in the bank, but I owe $2,000 in mortgage payments tomorrow" is an audit. Tether got caught pulling this trick; they'd get Bitfinex to transfer money into their accounts the day before an attestation, and move it out the day after. https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-ends-virtual-currency-trading-platform-bitfinexs-illegal https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-... > However, the very next day, on November 2, 2018, Tether began to transfer funds out of its account, ultimately moving hundreds of millions of dollars from Tether’s bank accounts to Bitfinex’s accounts. And so, as of November 2, 2018 — one day after their latest ‘verification’ — tethers were again no longer backed one-to-one by U.S. dollars in a Tether bank account.
  - 323 4y ago
    As stated in the document, the audit firm is required by law "to obtain evidence about Management Assertion". Is not just a rubber stamp. So far you have not provided any evidence about Gemini lying, just whataboutism about Tether.
kolinko 4y ago
Maker - doesn't hold USD at all, but maintains the peg through the collateral that is auditable and managed through smart contracts.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  We're on a thread about Tron's collapsing. https://medium.com/@usddio/usdd-upgrades-into-the-first-over-collateralized-decentralized-stablecoin-20907b81aec9 https://medium.com/@usddio/usdd-upgrades-into-the-first-over... > The TRON DAO Reserve is currently holding 10,500 BTC, 240 million USDT, and 1.9 billion TRX in the reserve account, on top of the 8.29 billion TRX already in the burning contract. The real-time collateral ratio is now over 200% — a total $1.37 billion of assets backing the 667 million USDD in circulation. Collateralization won't save you if the collateral isn't in USD.