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Anybody else concerned about the ethics of scrubbing intestines, injecting gas into intestines, then suffocation the mammals to death? Are animals in these pro

Anybody else concerned about the ethics of scrubbing intestines, injecting gas into intestines, then suffocation the mammals to death? Are animals in these procedures routinely anaesthetised?

odrekf 4y ago
If you eat meat you are probably financing worse things, like sentencing animals to a life in a house of horrors. Eg: piglets have their teeth and tails removed without anesthesia. Many simply die from shock. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_animal_farming#Animal_welfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_animal_farming#Anima...
- sweetheart 4y ago
  If only human beings could live long, happy, healthy lives while avoiding animal products! Oh, wait. And it's not just meat, either. Milk, cheese, leather, gelatin, etc. We subject billions of animals to truly nightmarish torture and 99% of us don't ever really stop to consider it.
  - peheje 4y ago
    Can milk be ethical?
    - sweetheart 4y ago
      I personally don't think so, unless in life-threatening situations. The dairy industry is arguably the worst of factory farming: all the horrific aspects of the meat industry, but prepended with years of subjugation (forced insemination, illness, etc.) In the best case, a cow is treated like a pet, which A.) is never the case, and B.) still necessitates taking something from an animal without it's consent. Something that is specifically for it's newborn, as well. That's _always_ gonna be wrong, unless it's a matter of life and death for someone.
belorn 4y ago
Animal trials usually involve a ethics committee. The big problem is that outside of mathematical/computer experiments, it is almost impossible to do medical testing in an ethical way. With exception to experiments done on brain dead (which still involve some measure of uncertainty), on who or what should test be conducted on. In the past we used war criminals or criminals sentenced to death, but that has an obviously ethically problem. We could use military recruits that volunteers, or poor people who would volunteer in exchange for monetary compensation, but how well understand is the consent and how ethical is it use people like that? We could use patients who are out of options, but how ethical is it to exploit people who has no realistic choices? It is hard to view animal testing as anything else than cruelty to animals. I can only hope that it was there was no other options, and that they indeed got anaesthetised. (Someone here mentioned experiments in breathing in oxygen-rich perfluorocarbons that used navy recruits. I have seen discussions about how much those consent should actually count considering the power balance and hierarchical culture that exist in the military).
lm28469 4y ago
It would be funny, if it wasn't dramatic, that animal cruelty is so common that people are only triggered by these exotic and very small scale experiments. Killing a few mice or cloning a few sheep is barbaric but slaughtering millions of mammals every single day is business as usual. Obviously as soon as one points that out the cognitive dissonance kicks in and the downvote brigade shows up
- dandare 4y ago
  You have my upvote.

Anybody else concerned about the ethics of scrubbing intestines, injecting gas into intestines, then suffocation the mammals to death? Are animals in these procedures routinely anaesthetised?

odrekf 4y ago

If you eat meat you are probably financing worse things, like sentencing animals to a life in a house of horrors. Eg: piglets have their teeth and tails removed without anesthesia. Many simply die from shock. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_animal_farming#Animal_welfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_animal_farming#Anima...

sweetheart 4y ago
If only human beings could live long, happy, healthy lives while avoiding animal products! Oh, wait. And it's not just meat, either. Milk, cheese, leather, gelatin, etc. We subject billions of animals to truly nightmarish torture and 99% of us don't ever really stop to consider it.
- peheje 4y ago
  Can milk be ethical?
  - sweetheart 4y ago
    I personally don't think so, unless in life-threatening situations. The dairy industry is arguably the worst of factory farming: all the horrific aspects of the meat industry, but prepended with years of subjugation (forced insemination, illness, etc.) In the best case, a cow is treated like a pet, which A.) is never the case, and B.) still necessitates taking something from an animal without it's consent. Something that is specifically for it's newborn, as well. That's _always_ gonna be wrong, unless it's a matter of life and death for someone.

belorn 4y ago

Animal trials usually involve a ethics committee. The big problem is that outside of mathematical/computer experiments, it is almost impossible to do medical testing in an ethical way. With exception to experiments done on brain dead (which still involve some measure of uncertainty), on who or what should test be conducted on. In the past we used war criminals or criminals sentenced to death, but that has an obviously ethically problem. We could use military recruits that volunteers, or poor people who would volunteer in exchange for monetary compensation, but how well understand is the consent and how ethical is it use people like that? We could use patients who are out of options, but how ethical is it to exploit people who has no realistic choices? It is hard to view animal testing as anything else than cruelty to animals. I can only hope that it was there was no other options, and that they indeed got anaesthetised. (Someone here mentioned experiments in breathing in oxygen-rich perfluorocarbons that used navy recruits. I have seen discussions about how much those consent should actually count considering the power balance and hierarchical culture that exist in the military).

lm28469 4y ago

It would be funny, if it wasn't dramatic, that animal cruelty is so common that people are only triggered by these exotic and very small scale experiments. Killing a few mice or cloning a few sheep is barbaric but slaughtering millions of mammals every single day is business as usual. Obviously as soon as one points that out the cognitive dissonance kicks in and the downvote brigade shows up

dandare 4y ago
You have my upvote.