8 ms·

As long as there is no accountability for people locking others up for decades without evidence, it will continue.

by danuker 4y ago

LatteLazy 4y ago
How do you hold the United States of America accountable?
- Retric 4y ago
  People acted not the entire USA, and we could hold the people involved accountable by sending them to prison. Up to and including Presidents. Not that we will, but it’s theoretically possible to do all sorts of things that won’t actually happen.
  - QuarterReptile 4y ago
    Trying to imprison the guy leaving office is a great way to have that guy not leave office. There's a reason that presidents don't get prosecuted, and it's not because nothing illegal happens. It's like trying to end the war in Ukraine while also saying that you're trying to depose Putin. Putting very powerful people in corners tends to be a really bad plan.
    - adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
      then don't imprison the president, just everyone who was "just following orders"
    - nescioquid 4y ago
      I don't know if it is such an easy answer. On the one hand, a policy of not prosecuting the office holder might help the peaceful transfer of power; on the other, such a policy creates an unaccountable sovereign every four years. Was it fear of prosecution that kept Caesar from giving up imperium when returning from Gaul? It was certainly a factor. Would there have been no Roman civil war if there was such a non-prosecution policy in place? I'm less certain. The risk you bring up must be carefully considered, but so is having an unaccountable sovereign, just four years at a time.
  - marssaxman 4y ago
    Instead of doing that, the citizens of the USA chose to re-elect the people involved.
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      And some even gave them money... I think it is reasonable to jail anyone who funded anyone involved here either death penalty or rest of their lives in such facility like one in question here. They can't be redeemed as human beings.
- mbg721 4y ago
  In the most American way possible, by shaking our fists, mumbling about bureaucrats, and settling for a fraction of a cent per taxpayer.
- 4bpp 4y ago
  If you are a citizen of another country, at least, vote against politicians that want to strengthen your country's alliance with it, and respond to polls in ways that indicate opposition to causes it cares about. The US is dependent on its network of allies in many respects; most pertinently, much of the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns would not have been possible without the support of its European and the Middle Eastern ones, providing overflight permissions, military bases, intelligence and often even hosting "black sites" where people from the target nations could be tortured far from the meddlesome eyes of journalists and NGOs.
  - blfr 4y ago
    What is most countries alternative to allying with the US? China? Russia? With their spotless record on human rights?
    - potatototoo99 4y ago
      Being independent? US, China and Russia project this image of great power but they can hardly project it, as evidenced most recently in Ukraine.
      - cpursley 4y ago
        According to whom? The reddit armchair generals? MSM "journalists" with non-technical degrees like humanities? Russia is weeks, perhaps days, away from consolidating the Donbas (area large than the entire UK) and have greatly reduced the NATO-trained and supported Ukrainian military's (second largest in Europe) ability to conduct offensive maneuver warfare in a time span of just a few of weeks. And that's with maybe using 20% of Russias military capacity. All according to western sources. Let's not conflate how we feel about the situation with the reality on the ground. The sooner we're honest about whats going, the sooner we can have peace.
        trasz 4y ago
        Russia isn't really consolidating anything - they are destroying Donbas, razing entire cities. That's after three months of failures, like when they were forced to flee from Kyiv and then Kharkiv. And no, that's not 20% of their capability, that's all of their military capability (that's why they are using conscripts), except the strategic forces. And that's against a rather underfunded country which, during previous Russian invasion, couldn't defend at all. Ukraine's main problem is that they are not being supplied with enough heavy weapons. The sooner they are, the sooner we can have peace. You might want to take some time off from reading Sputnik, comrade :-)
- pvaldes 4y ago
  You only need to be accountable the responsible of this, not the entire country. This is the word of a very reduced group of people. USA tribunals should be capable to pursue violations of human rights inside USA territory.
  - trasz 4y ago
    What if the entire country works hard to make sure they cannot be held accountable? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Prot...
    - ragebol 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Prot... (without the typo)
- sockopen 4y ago
  This was done by a few people, who bleed like you and I do. Not by a country, solution is much easier.
- refurb 4y ago
  How do you hold the UK accountable? Australia accountable? Switzerland? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_detention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_detention
elric 4y ago
There is a certain court in The Hague that tends to have an opinion on such matters. But the US seems to think they shouldn't be held accountable when it comes to international law or human rights.. ("The Hague Invasion Act").
- mbg721 4y ago
  If it has to get to the Hague, there were drastic failures earlier. The US has a right to a speedy and public trial, and needs to put its money where its mouth is (or was).
  - elric 4y ago
    Is this the same speedy and public trial that the gitmo detainees got?
    - mbg721 4y ago
      No, good God no! There are a ton of conservative voters who loathed the Dubya administration, and I'm one of them. But you have to understand, that's what created Trump, especially as Democrats doubled down on social issues.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    >and needs to put its money where its mouth is (or was). Unwillingness to practice what you preach when people you don't like benefit is a huge problem with all sorts of institutions in the US and will not get better at least not for a generation or two. Broad acceptance of double standards is a necessary part of the currently depending ideological divide so we basically need to wait until the people peddling that are out of the workforce.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > There is a certain court in The Hague that tends to have an opinion on such matters. But the US seems to think they shouldn't be held accountable when it comes to international law or human rights.. ("The Hague Invasion Act"). International law isn't really law in the sense we're used to. There is no world government. International relations are anarchic, and the "international law" that's binding on a country is pretty much what it agrees to abide by or can be forcibly compelled to abide by (through military action, etc).

As long as there is no accountability for people locking others up for decades without evidence, it will continue.

LatteLazy 4y ago

How do you hold the United States of America accountable?

Retric 4y ago
People acted not the entire USA, and we could hold the people involved accountable by sending them to prison. Up to and including Presidents. Not that we will, but it’s theoretically possible to do all sorts of things that won’t actually happen.
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
  Trying to imprison the guy leaving office is a great way to have that guy not leave office. There's a reason that presidents don't get prosecuted, and it's not because nothing illegal happens. It's like trying to end the war in Ukraine while also saying that you're trying to depose Putin. Putting very powerful people in corners tends to be a really bad plan.
  - adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
    then don't imprison the president, just everyone who was "just following orders"
  - nescioquid 4y ago
    I don't know if it is such an easy answer. On the one hand, a policy of not prosecuting the office holder might help the peaceful transfer of power; on the other, such a policy creates an unaccountable sovereign every four years. Was it fear of prosecution that kept Caesar from giving up imperium when returning from Gaul? It was certainly a factor. Would there have been no Roman civil war if there was such a non-prosecution policy in place? I'm less certain. The risk you bring up must be carefully considered, but so is having an unaccountable sovereign, just four years at a time.
- marssaxman 4y ago
  Instead of doing that, the citizens of the USA chose to re-elect the people involved.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    And some even gave them money... I think it is reasonable to jail anyone who funded anyone involved here either death penalty or rest of their lives in such facility like one in question here. They can't be redeemed as human beings.
mbg721 4y ago
In the most American way possible, by shaking our fists, mumbling about bureaucrats, and settling for a fraction of a cent per taxpayer.
4bpp 4y ago
If you are a citizen of another country, at least, vote against politicians that want to strengthen your country's alliance with it, and respond to polls in ways that indicate opposition to causes it cares about. The US is dependent on its network of allies in many respects; most pertinently, much of the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns would not have been possible without the support of its European and the Middle Eastern ones, providing overflight permissions, military bases, intelligence and often even hosting "black sites" where people from the target nations could be tortured far from the meddlesome eyes of journalists and NGOs.
- blfr 4y ago
  What is most countries alternative to allying with the US? China? Russia? With their spotless record on human rights?
  - potatototoo99 4y ago
    Being independent? US, China and Russia project this image of great power but they can hardly project it, as evidenced most recently in Ukraine.
    - cpursley 4y ago
      According to whom? The reddit armchair generals? MSM "journalists" with non-technical degrees like humanities? Russia is weeks, perhaps days, away from consolidating the Donbas (area large than the entire UK) and have greatly reduced the NATO-trained and supported Ukrainian military's (second largest in Europe) ability to conduct offensive maneuver warfare in a time span of just a few of weeks. And that's with maybe using 20% of Russias military capacity. All according to western sources. Let's not conflate how we feel about the situation with the reality on the ground. The sooner we're honest about whats going, the sooner we can have peace.
      - trasz 4y ago
        Russia isn't really consolidating anything - they are destroying Donbas, razing entire cities. That's after three months of failures, like when they were forced to flee from Kyiv and then Kharkiv. And no, that's not 20% of their capability, that's all of their military capability (that's why they are using conscripts), except the strategic forces. And that's against a rather underfunded country which, during previous Russian invasion, couldn't defend at all. Ukraine's main problem is that they are not being supplied with enough heavy weapons. The sooner they are, the sooner we can have peace. You might want to take some time off from reading Sputnik, comrade :-)
pvaldes 4y ago
You only need to be accountable the responsible of this, not the entire country. This is the word of a very reduced group of people. USA tribunals should be capable to pursue violations of human rights inside USA territory.
- trasz 4y ago
  What if the entire country works hard to make sure they cannot be held accountable? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Prot...
  - ragebol 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Prot... (without the typo)
sockopen 4y ago
This was done by a few people, who bleed like you and I do. Not by a country, solution is much easier.
refurb 4y ago
How do you hold the UK accountable? Australia accountable? Switzerland? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_detention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_detention

elric 4y ago

There is a certain court in The Hague that tends to have an opinion on such matters. But the US seems to think they shouldn't be held accountable when it comes to international law or human rights.. ("The Hague Invasion Act").

mbg721 4y ago
If it has to get to the Hague, there were drastic failures earlier. The US has a right to a speedy and public trial, and needs to put its money where its mouth is (or was).
- elric 4y ago
  Is this the same speedy and public trial that the gitmo detainees got?
  - mbg721 4y ago
    No, good God no! There are a ton of conservative voters who loathed the Dubya administration, and I'm one of them. But you have to understand, that's what created Trump, especially as Democrats doubled down on social issues.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  >and needs to put its money where its mouth is (or was). Unwillingness to practice what you preach when people you don't like benefit is a huge problem with all sorts of institutions in the US and will not get better at least not for a generation or two. Broad acceptance of double standards is a necessary part of the currently depending ideological divide so we basically need to wait until the people peddling that are out of the workforce.
tablespoon 4y ago
> There is a certain court in The Hague that tends to have an opinion on such matters. But the US seems to think they shouldn't be held accountable when it comes to international law or human rights.. ("The Hague Invasion Act"). International law isn't really law in the sense we're used to. There is no world government. International relations are anarchic, and the "international law" that's binding on a country is pretty much what it agrees to abide by or can be forcibly compelled to abide by (through military action, etc).