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> For the heat of Texas, Arizona, Florida, and New Mexico? For the freezing temperatures in Minnesota, Alaska, and North Dakota? You would quickly die. The maj

> For the heat of Texas, Arizona, Florida, and New Mexico? For the freezing temperatures in Minnesota, Alaska, and North Dakota? You would quickly die. The majority of people commute by scooter/moped in Jakarta, so it's clearly doable in climates as hot as those you mention. > even though we obviously can’t just tear down our cities and start from scratch. You don't have to. Reclaim the roads/stroads by building in the middle and leaving a single one-way lane on each side.

rayiner 4y ago
> The majority of people commute by scooter/moped in Jakarta, so it's clearly doable in climates as hot as those you mention. Yeah and the majority of people in Dhaka where I’m from walk everywhere. The true goal of urbanists and environmentalists is for us to live like we’re impoverished people in the third world.
- sky-kedge0749 4y ago
  Would people in Dhaka prefer cars or just a better walking and public transit experience? Are cars even conceivable with a population density of 76,080 per square mile? If cars are impossible in such a city then it doesn't matter whether they're impoverished or not.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    > Would people in Dhaka prefer cars or just a better walking and public transit experience Nobody wants to walk or take public transit in that heat and humidity. Especially not with two or three kids, or carrying tiffin containers of leftovers after a dinner party. My family members who came over from Dhaka to the US moved to places built around cars as soon as they could afford it. My cousin just moved to Texas (after studying in Queens) and is loving all the open space, the houses with pools, etc.
    - sky-kedge0749 4y ago
      Walking in heat and humidity is unpleasant but the climate and population are what they are so you work with what you have. I can't speak for all environmentalists but I'd like people to live pleasantly wherever they like if they can do so sustainably. Probably most Dhaka residents, like most people anywhere, would prefer to stay in their home city and country if possible, just improved. In any case giving everyone in the world a Texas-sized house and pool is not on the table no matter what until we invent personal fusion generators and matter replicators. Having climate-controlled walkways or more comfortable transit options specifically for people with kids should be available in every city, "impoverished" or "third world" or not. The world certainly has the resources for it.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        > Walking in heat and humidity is unpleasant but the climate and population are what they are so you work with what you have. Bangladesh has about the same population density as the Houston metro area. So it would be totally possible for most people to have cars and houses if it became an advanced service economy. > I can't speak for all environmentalists but I'd like people to live pleasantly wherever they like if they can do so sustainably. It's not really up to environmentalists in the first world. > Probably most Dhaka residents, like most people anywhere, would prefer to stay in their home city and country if possible, just improved. In any case giving everyone in the world a Texas-sized house and pool is not on the table no matter what until we invent personal fusion generators and matter replicators. I think that's an accurate reflection of what people's end goals are, yes. Using technology to increase the standard of living, just as in western countries.
        arghwhat 4y ago
        > It's not really up to environmentalists in the first world. We are also predominantly complaining about people in the "first world" disregarding the environment due to minor convenience and unfortunate economics. (But we only have one planet for now, and as things are, nobody is entitled to a free pass to be environmentally irresponsible anymore.)
- arghwhat 4y ago
  > The true goal of urbanists and environmentalists is for us to live like we’re impoverished people in the third world. Indeed, when you bike to work you're mimicking truly impoverished people like Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark. Sometimes I wonder if aggressively pro-car anti-bicycle people ever tried using a bicycle seriously...
  - rayiner 4y ago
    I once told my dad, who grew up in a Bangladeshi village, that my wife and I were going to a fancy restaurant that churns its own butter. “Why would you churn your own butter,” he asked. “You can buy butter at the store.” Similarly, biking to work does not make you impoverished. Having to bike to work, or living in a society where most people bike to work, strongly suggests you are impoverished.
    - arghwhat 4y ago
      Your dad has a point about butter, but would the transport equivalent of not having to churn your own butter not be to have others chauffeur you around, rather than driving yourself? Or, if we think of it as highlighting mass manufacture efficiency, taking public transport? In Denmark at least, most people bike to work, so the latter part is at least objectively false.
      - areyousure 4y ago
        > In Denmark at least, most people bike to work, so the latter part is at least objectively false. In case anyone is curious, the following PDF provides some statistics on this issue: https://trimis.ec.europa.eu/sites/default/files/project/documents/Facts%20and%20Figures%20netversion.pdf https://trimis.ec.europa.eu/sites/default/files/project/docu... Tldr: 20% of commuting trips are by bicycle, 13% by public transport, and 60% by private car/van. Of all travel miles, 5% are by bicycle, 10% by public transport, and 77% are by car/van.

rayiner 4y ago

> The majority of people commute by scooter/moped in Jakarta, so it's clearly doable in climates as hot as those you mention. Yeah and the majority of people in Dhaka where I’m from walk everywhere. The true goal of urbanists and environmentalists is for us to live like we’re impoverished people in the third world.

sky-kedge0749 4y ago
Would people in Dhaka prefer cars or just a better walking and public transit experience? Are cars even conceivable with a population density of 76,080 per square mile? If cars are impossible in such a city then it doesn't matter whether they're impoverished or not.
- rayiner 4y ago
  > Would people in Dhaka prefer cars or just a better walking and public transit experience Nobody wants to walk or take public transit in that heat and humidity. Especially not with two or three kids, or carrying tiffin containers of leftovers after a dinner party. My family members who came over from Dhaka to the US moved to places built around cars as soon as they could afford it. My cousin just moved to Texas (after studying in Queens) and is loving all the open space, the houses with pools, etc.
  - sky-kedge0749 4y ago
    Walking in heat and humidity is unpleasant but the climate and population are what they are so you work with what you have. I can't speak for all environmentalists but I'd like people to live pleasantly wherever they like if they can do so sustainably. Probably most Dhaka residents, like most people anywhere, would prefer to stay in their home city and country if possible, just improved. In any case giving everyone in the world a Texas-sized house and pool is not on the table no matter what until we invent personal fusion generators and matter replicators. Having climate-controlled walkways or more comfortable transit options specifically for people with kids should be available in every city, "impoverished" or "third world" or not. The world certainly has the resources for it.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      > Walking in heat and humidity is unpleasant but the climate and population are what they are so you work with what you have. Bangladesh has about the same population density as the Houston metro area. So it would be totally possible for most people to have cars and houses if it became an advanced service economy. > I can't speak for all environmentalists but I'd like people to live pleasantly wherever they like if they can do so sustainably. It's not really up to environmentalists in the first world. > Probably most Dhaka residents, like most people anywhere, would prefer to stay in their home city and country if possible, just improved. In any case giving everyone in the world a Texas-sized house and pool is not on the table no matter what until we invent personal fusion generators and matter replicators. I think that's an accurate reflection of what people's end goals are, yes. Using technology to increase the standard of living, just as in western countries.
      - arghwhat 4y ago
        > It's not really up to environmentalists in the first world. We are also predominantly complaining about people in the "first world" disregarding the environment due to minor convenience and unfortunate economics. (But we only have one planet for now, and as things are, nobody is entitled to a free pass to be environmentally irresponsible anymore.)
arghwhat 4y ago
> The true goal of urbanists and environmentalists is for us to live like we’re impoverished people in the third world. Indeed, when you bike to work you're mimicking truly impoverished people like Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark. Sometimes I wonder if aggressively pro-car anti-bicycle people ever tried using a bicycle seriously...
- rayiner 4y ago
  I once told my dad, who grew up in a Bangladeshi village, that my wife and I were going to a fancy restaurant that churns its own butter. “Why would you churn your own butter,” he asked. “You can buy butter at the store.” Similarly, biking to work does not make you impoverished. Having to bike to work, or living in a society where most people bike to work, strongly suggests you are impoverished.
  - arghwhat 4y ago
    Your dad has a point about butter, but would the transport equivalent of not having to churn your own butter not be to have others chauffeur you around, rather than driving yourself? Or, if we think of it as highlighting mass manufacture efficiency, taking public transport? In Denmark at least, most people bike to work, so the latter part is at least objectively false.
    - areyousure 4y ago
      > In Denmark at least, most people bike to work, so the latter part is at least objectively false. In case anyone is curious, the following PDF provides some statistics on this issue: https://trimis.ec.europa.eu/sites/default/files/project/documents/Facts%20and%20Figures%20netversion.pdf https://trimis.ec.europa.eu/sites/default/files/project/docu... Tldr: 20% of commuting trips are by bicycle, 13% by public transport, and 60% by private car/van. Of all travel miles, 5% are by bicycle, 10% by public transport, and 77% are by car/van.