4 ms·

You must be living under a rock: Coordinate foreign affairs? => Yes (e. g. Russia sanctions) Able to police external borders? => Yes, Frontex Credible milita

You must be living under a rock: Coordinate foreign affairs? => Yes (e. g. Russia sanctions) Able to police external borders? => Yes, Frontex Credible military deterrence in its near abroad? => When was the last time anyone attacked an EU country?

LAC-Tech 4y ago
Coordinate foreign affairs? => Yes (e. g. Russia sanctions) US led and coordinated Able to police external borders? => Yes, Frontex Famously ineffective in 2015. Credible military deterrence in its near abroad? => When was the last time anyone attacked an EU country? The near abroad of the EU is not the EU, they are its neighbouring states.
- arez 4y ago
  in 2015 it was agreed to let people in. Luckily we don't have gates that we open and close, but the countries in the EU agreed that this was a humanitarian crisis and decided to take some amounts of foreigners in.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >in 2015 it was agreed to let people in There was no common EU agreement to do that though. It was mostly Germany posturing for good PR and to try to save their ageing demographics and supplement their manufacturing sector which is dependent on imported cheap labor to stay competitive, as the cheap labor from the Eastern Block dried up. Denmark and other EU members chose to opt out from the refugee sharing scheme back then, denying to take them in, and this was also one of the main factors that violently triggered Brexit as lots of brits feared the idea of having to be obliged to take in unwanted people just because that's what Germany was suggesting to other members. All it did was create dissident among EU members and help break up the EU.
    - arez 4y ago
      first you say there was no agreement and then you say there was a sharing agreement, how does this fit together? Also germany needs some cheap labor but manufacturing isn't the main part, manufacturing is actually quiet expensive due to strong unions in germany especially in car manufacturing etc. and yes, brexit happened also because of these things, but as you can see now, letting foreigners in doesn't need to be bad, it's more the other way around, you can't find truck drivers, bus drivers etc. anymore in the UK.
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        > manufacturing is actually quiet expensive due to strong unions in germany especially in car manufacturing etc. Except that not all industries are unionized so workers' exploitation is rampant, especially in low margin, low wage industries like fruit and vegetable picking, meat, hospitality, etc. where most of the migrant workers end up. The exploitation of migrants during Covid was even documented on DW. Through work, I once had to vist one of the biggest meat plants in Germany, and nearly half the workers were Polish, and the other half Romanian. I asked them if they're unionized, they said 'no'. Q.E.D.
        arez 4y ago
        Q.E.D, lol :D manufacturing vegetables and meat? I'm talking about cars, screws, machine. Nobody manufactures vegetables or meat :D but you mean packaging, ok, but germany is not big in that either, that's only some but mostly for the domestic market
- ranguna 4y ago
  > US led and coordinated US led US sanctions, not all sanctions are US sanctions. > The near abroad of the EU is not the EU, they are its neighbouring states. They are indeed EU neighbour states, but they are not EU member states.
  - LAC-Tech 4y ago
    You're really struggling with my use of the term "near abroad". Let me clarify again - I mean states that border EU member states, but that are not themselves EU member states.
    - freemint 4y ago
      The USoA by the same metric is also struggling suppressing drug cartels in Mexico, even though they have a war on drugs ongoing and it is a neighbouring country. Let's not get started about the USoAs capabilities of protecting their border.
baud147258 4y ago
> Credible military deterrence in its near abroad? => When was the last time anyone attacked an EU country? I'd say it's more down to NATO membership than anything from the EU
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Able to police external borders? => Yes, Frontex That hasn't really worked in practice though, as illegal migrants discovered that if you sail a boat towards EU borders and intentionally sink it when Frontex tries to intercept, then they're obliged to rescue and take you to Europe, instead of sending you back for trespassing without a visa, meaning anyone could exploit this loophole to enter Europe illegally. That's hardly an effective border protection.
- pasabagi 4y ago
  If they don't have a legitimate claim to asylum, they can be sent back. The problem is, the vast majority do, and since that right stems from fundamental human rights, you can't simply remove it. That, and the better angels of european conscience remember that it was our grandparents, and the governments they elected, who turned away the jewish refugees seeking asylum from the Nazis. Sadly, since the apple never falls all that far from the tree, there is always a lot of support for making it practically impossible for refugees to claim the protections that are enshrined in the core principle of the EU. So, that's why people are attempting dangerous sea crossings.

LAC-Tech 4y ago

Coordinate foreign affairs? => Yes (e. g. Russia sanctions) US led and coordinated Able to police external borders? => Yes, Frontex Famously ineffective in 2015. Credible military deterrence in its near abroad? => When was the last time anyone attacked an EU country? The near abroad of the EU is not the EU, they are its neighbouring states.

arez 4y ago
in 2015 it was agreed to let people in. Luckily we don't have gates that we open and close, but the countries in the EU agreed that this was a humanitarian crisis and decided to take some amounts of foreigners in.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >in 2015 it was agreed to let people in There was no common EU agreement to do that though. It was mostly Germany posturing for good PR and to try to save their ageing demographics and supplement their manufacturing sector which is dependent on imported cheap labor to stay competitive, as the cheap labor from the Eastern Block dried up. Denmark and other EU members chose to opt out from the refugee sharing scheme back then, denying to take them in, and this was also one of the main factors that violently triggered Brexit as lots of brits feared the idea of having to be obliged to take in unwanted people just because that's what Germany was suggesting to other members. All it did was create dissident among EU members and help break up the EU.
  - arez 4y ago
    first you say there was no agreement and then you say there was a sharing agreement, how does this fit together? Also germany needs some cheap labor but manufacturing isn't the main part, manufacturing is actually quiet expensive due to strong unions in germany especially in car manufacturing etc. and yes, brexit happened also because of these things, but as you can see now, letting foreigners in doesn't need to be bad, it's more the other way around, you can't find truck drivers, bus drivers etc. anymore in the UK.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      > manufacturing is actually quiet expensive due to strong unions in germany especially in car manufacturing etc. Except that not all industries are unionized so workers' exploitation is rampant, especially in low margin, low wage industries like fruit and vegetable picking, meat, hospitality, etc. where most of the migrant workers end up. The exploitation of migrants during Covid was even documented on DW. Through work, I once had to vist one of the biggest meat plants in Germany, and nearly half the workers were Polish, and the other half Romanian. I asked them if they're unionized, they said 'no'. Q.E.D.
      - arez 4y ago
        Q.E.D, lol :D manufacturing vegetables and meat? I'm talking about cars, screws, machine. Nobody manufactures vegetables or meat :D but you mean packaging, ok, but germany is not big in that either, that's only some but mostly for the domestic market
ranguna 4y ago
> US led and coordinated US led US sanctions, not all sanctions are US sanctions. > The near abroad of the EU is not the EU, they are its neighbouring states. They are indeed EU neighbour states, but they are not EU member states.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  You're really struggling with my use of the term "near abroad". Let me clarify again - I mean states that border EU member states, but that are not themselves EU member states.
  - freemint 4y ago
    The USoA by the same metric is also struggling suppressing drug cartels in Mexico, even though they have a war on drugs ongoing and it is a neighbouring country. Let's not get started about the USoAs capabilities of protecting their border.

baud147258 4y ago

> Credible military deterrence in its near abroad? => When was the last time anyone attacked an EU country? I'd say it's more down to NATO membership than anything from the EU

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>Able to police external borders? => Yes, Frontex That hasn't really worked in practice though, as illegal migrants discovered that if you sail a boat towards EU borders and intentionally sink it when Frontex tries to intercept, then they're obliged to rescue and take you to Europe, instead of sending you back for trespassing without a visa, meaning anyone could exploit this loophole to enter Europe illegally. That's hardly an effective border protection.

pasabagi 4y ago
If they don't have a legitimate claim to asylum, they can be sent back. The problem is, the vast majority do, and since that right stems from fundamental human rights, you can't simply remove it. That, and the better angels of european conscience remember that it was our grandparents, and the governments they elected, who turned away the jewish refugees seeking asylum from the Nazis. Sadly, since the apple never falls all that far from the tree, there is always a lot of support for making it practically impossible for refugees to claim the protections that are enshrined in the core principle of the EU. So, that's why people are attempting dangerous sea crossings.