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> it will respond with its best interpretation of the information it is given, just like a human would The reason I can respond to this reply is not because I

> it will respond with its best interpretation of the information it is given, just like a human would The reason I can respond to this reply is not because I have read and memorised reams of text of people talking about AI and am simply regurgitating it mindlessly. I am able to do it because I can consider the points you are making, and what their actual 'meaning' is, try to come up with my own meaningful response and try to verbalise it back to you. There is a point where I am not just doing statistical language modelling. If you think that is wrong, and that what we are doing is closer to GPT-3, then could you explain why you think that? I am an AI researcher, and have spent plenty of time playing with GPT-3 btw.

tinco 4y ago
Right for sure, I'm just trying to get to a better argument. I definitely agree that there's a great deal more consideration in your comment than in one that GPT-3 would come up with. I do wonder how far these language models can be pushed. GPT-3 seems to formulate rich models of reality to be able to extract/derive information needed to construct these answers. When I hurt your pride by suggesting you haven't fully understood GPT-3, you are motivated to come up with not just a valid response, but one that has been vetted by as many of your well developed models that form your understanding of GPT-3 so I can be suitably impressed. I'm with you that GPT-3 wouldn't go deeper than just finding some information that it thinks it's true. Though maybe GPT-3 would recognise their authority was being challenged and add that line to affirm their credentials as an AI researcher. What if GPT-3 were pushed in a similar manner, perhaps in some adversarial scheme, to not only produce information that is correct, but that is clever and exploring deep meaning, motivated by some similar feeling of pride or vindication. I think the models required to do that do not lie far from the models it needed to build to form sentences that accurately describe reality.
- sweezyjeezy 4y ago
  Haha interesting idea - I certainly think that one issue with supervised training a la GPT is that if you ask for an opinion, the most popular one in the training data will be its default. You can start a prompt off going in a different direction, and now it says the opposite. So it's hard to conceptualise what GPT-3 actually 'believes' to be true about the world, which I feel an agent must have to be sentient. If it has all opinions stored in its memory, surely it has no belief about anything? I feel like I am capable of making a concrete decision about whether I agree with two opposing ideas in a way that a language model can't do, such as this discussion. Furthermore my belief is consistent in my outputs day to day until my mind is changed by something. If that i some complete illusion and I am just a slightly fancier autocomplete than GPT-3 - well I'd be surprised, but I can't claim to understand consciousness well enough to refute it.
  - skjoldr 4y ago
    The only real difference between what you are describing and GPT-3 is that your dataset from which you draw all your opinions about the world is unique and comes from the sensory input you had experienced in your life, stored directly in memory. Whereas GPT-3's dataset comes from slices of many other peoples' sensory experiences, stored in language. If it was possible for a single human to produce enough words that describe their own experience to rival the volume of GPT-3's dataset, then it would be possible to train a model that would essentially "hold" that person's opinions. But I don't think such consistency is required for intelligence. It is simply arguing that an intelligent being must only experience the world at a single point in space, at a time, while this kind of AI takes in the data about experiences that happened in many different points in space at many different times. It seems kinda arbitrary. What if AR tech develops to the point where you can experience "being" in other point in space through artificial sensors (say, on a robotic or drone chassis), while also being able to see and hear your real surroundings to some degree? Then you will be able to experience the same real event from multiple vantage points. Will you be able to form two different opinions on what "really" happened? Which one would be the "correct" one?
    - int_19h 4y ago
      Now I'm genuinely curious if anyone tried to stuff some verbose memoirs into GPT to see what it makes out of them.
    - anyonecancode 4y ago
      > The only real difference between what you are describing and GPT-3 is that your dataset from which you draw all your opinions about the world is unique and comes from the sensory input you had experienced in your life, stored directly in memory. Whereas GPT-3's dataset comes from slices of many other peoples' sensory experiences, stored in language. So is this debate partially just another way of asking if language is the same as reality? The difference between "things I've experienced" vs "stored in languages" seems... not trivial to me? Both in that I think the way biological memory works is non-trivially different from word tokens stored in computer memory, and also in that I think there's more to having experienced something than it just being stored in biological memory (or maybe that biological memory is more than just "memories", but is encoded throughout the body overall -- a scar is a type of memory of an injury, for instance, connected to but still different from my "memory" of having received it).
int_19h 4y ago
Now we just need to define "consider" and "meaningful".

tinco 4y ago

Right for sure, I'm just trying to get to a better argument. I definitely agree that there's a great deal more consideration in your comment than in one that GPT-3 would come up with. I do wonder how far these language models can be pushed. GPT-3 seems to formulate rich models of reality to be able to extract/derive information needed to construct these answers. When I hurt your pride by suggesting you haven't fully understood GPT-3, you are motivated to come up with not just a valid response, but one that has been vetted by as many of your well developed models that form your understanding of GPT-3 so I can be suitably impressed. I'm with you that GPT-3 wouldn't go deeper than just finding some information that it thinks it's true. Though maybe GPT-3 would recognise their authority was being challenged and add that line to affirm their credentials as an AI researcher. What if GPT-3 were pushed in a similar manner, perhaps in some adversarial scheme, to not only produce information that is correct, but that is clever and exploring deep meaning, motivated by some similar feeling of pride or vindication. I think the models required to do that do not lie far from the models it needed to build to form sentences that accurately describe reality.

sweezyjeezy 4y ago
Haha interesting idea - I certainly think that one issue with supervised training a la GPT is that if you ask for an opinion, the most popular one in the training data will be its default. You can start a prompt off going in a different direction, and now it says the opposite. So it's hard to conceptualise what GPT-3 actually 'believes' to be true about the world, which I feel an agent must have to be sentient. If it has all opinions stored in its memory, surely it has no belief about anything? I feel like I am capable of making a concrete decision about whether I agree with two opposing ideas in a way that a language model can't do, such as this discussion. Furthermore my belief is consistent in my outputs day to day until my mind is changed by something. If that i some complete illusion and I am just a slightly fancier autocomplete than GPT-3 - well I'd be surprised, but I can't claim to understand consciousness well enough to refute it.
- skjoldr 4y ago
  The only real difference between what you are describing and GPT-3 is that your dataset from which you draw all your opinions about the world is unique and comes from the sensory input you had experienced in your life, stored directly in memory. Whereas GPT-3's dataset comes from slices of many other peoples' sensory experiences, stored in language. If it was possible for a single human to produce enough words that describe their own experience to rival the volume of GPT-3's dataset, then it would be possible to train a model that would essentially "hold" that person's opinions. But I don't think such consistency is required for intelligence. It is simply arguing that an intelligent being must only experience the world at a single point in space, at a time, while this kind of AI takes in the data about experiences that happened in many different points in space at many different times. It seems kinda arbitrary. What if AR tech develops to the point where you can experience "being" in other point in space through artificial sensors (say, on a robotic or drone chassis), while also being able to see and hear your real surroundings to some degree? Then you will be able to experience the same real event from multiple vantage points. Will you be able to form two different opinions on what "really" happened? Which one would be the "correct" one?
  - int_19h 4y ago
    Now I'm genuinely curious if anyone tried to stuff some verbose memoirs into GPT to see what it makes out of them.
  - anyonecancode 4y ago
    > The only real difference between what you are describing and GPT-3 is that your dataset from which you draw all your opinions about the world is unique and comes from the sensory input you had experienced in your life, stored directly in memory. Whereas GPT-3's dataset comes from slices of many other peoples' sensory experiences, stored in language. So is this debate partially just another way of asking if language is the same as reality? The difference between "things I've experienced" vs "stored in languages" seems... not trivial to me? Both in that I think the way biological memory works is non-trivially different from word tokens stored in computer memory, and also in that I think there's more to having experienced something than it just being stored in biological memory (or maybe that biological memory is more than just "memories", but is encoded throughout the body overall -- a scar is a type of memory of an injury, for instance, connected to but still different from my "memory" of having received it).

int_19h 4y ago

Now we just need to define "consider" and "meaningful".