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No, not in a useful way. Either they're not free (which matters when setting up group chats) or they don't have reliable push notifications (because only the g

by usrn 4y ago

No, not in a useful way. Either they're not free (which matters when setting up group chats) or they don't have reliable push notifications (because only the group publishing the app can maintain the push infrastructure (which is required) and no one is paying them and it's a lot of work.) It is actually completely fucked. I've looked into dealing with it myself. Apple has pretty much single-handedly destroyed internet IM. Hopefully this starts to undo the damage.

dmitriid 4y ago
> Apple has pretty much single-handedly destroyed internet IM That's a bold claim when looks at dozens of messaging apps and hundreds of billions of messages sent daily
- usrn 4y ago
  Yeah they're almost all siloed or they have the problems I've mentioned. The way Apple has decided app architecture must work forces this on everyone. I've spent a bunch of time (way more than I would have liked) looking into this and I've had this exact same discussion a dozen different times. EDIT: I'm out of comment quota. Being open source hardly matters if the app is siloed. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to have decent XMPP and IRC clients other than Apple jerking their users around. (and before you bitch at me about leaving a socket open for push notifications using up battery, no. That's what the OS is already doing, it suspends the machine without closing the socket and reopens it if it's dead after the next wakeup.)
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    Siloed, yes. Have the problems you mentioned, no. On top of that there's the issue of at least some of the tech that open source likes to use. Prime example is XMPP which 10 years after introduction of the iPhone still didn't have a compelling mobile story [1] 10 more years later, and yeah. I think the lack of open source messengers is a combination of many things and whatever Apple forced is just a part of it. [1] https://gultsch.de/xmpp_2016.html https://gultsch.de/xmpp_2016.html In 2016 almost all XEPs references where in early experimental stages.

by usrn 4y ago

dmitriid 4y ago

> Apple has pretty much single-handedly destroyed internet IM That's a bold claim when looks at dozens of messaging apps and hundreds of billions of messages sent daily

usrn 4y ago
Yeah they're almost all siloed or they have the problems I've mentioned. The way Apple has decided app architecture must work forces this on everyone. I've spent a bunch of time (way more than I would have liked) looking into this and I've had this exact same discussion a dozen different times. EDIT: I'm out of comment quota. Being open source hardly matters if the app is siloed. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to have decent XMPP and IRC clients other than Apple jerking their users around. (and before you bitch at me about leaving a socket open for push notifications using up battery, no. That's what the OS is already doing, it suspends the machine without closing the socket and reopens it if it's dead after the next wakeup.)
- dmitriid 4y ago
  Siloed, yes. Have the problems you mentioned, no. On top of that there's the issue of at least some of the tech that open source likes to use. Prime example is XMPP which 10 years after introduction of the iPhone still didn't have a compelling mobile story [1] 10 more years later, and yeah. I think the lack of open source messengers is a combination of many things and whatever Apple forced is just a part of it. [1] https://gultsch.de/xmpp_2016.html https://gultsch.de/xmpp_2016.html In 2016 almost all XEPs references where in early experimental stages.