7 ms·

An Open Letter to the Next School Shooter

32 points by exolymph 4y ago

joshthecynic 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
7eight9ten 4y ago
- 4pkjai 4y ago
  I think it's a bit cynical to assume the author only posted this for clout.
  - 7eight9ten 4y ago
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    It's a bit cynical to assume politicians only condemn mass shootings for clout, yet here we are.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  I’m amazed this is your reaction. I’m not going to ask you to delete your comment though, it’s obviously sincere too.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Markoff 4y ago
"There Won’t Be Anything Special About Your Shooting" Well yeah, but it would be special, if they came up with other target, something in line with ETA/IRA targets, in which case they could become even heroes for significant part of population. "The “great men” of history — the emperors, the conquerors — aren’t remembered for the death and destruction they wrought." Sure, nobody remembers Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, Mao etc. What is this guy smoking? Oh yeah, right, Hitler is the most remembered for great German highways he built. Nobody remembers those 50M dead Chinese from Mao's made famine.
- vaylian 4y ago
  Why the negativity? > Sure, nobody remembers Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, Mao etc. What is this guy smoking? I'm pretty sure the author used the word "remembered" in the sense of "recognized" or "admired". Could they have chosen a more precise word? Yes, but to me it is clear what they mean.
  - ComradePhil 4y ago
    Hitler is recognized and admired by many. If the change in world order happens when his significance is still fresh, he will surface back as a universally admired figure because it is not very difficult to piece together what the Nazi regime actually did vs what the Soviet occupiers accused them of (and what the US went along with).
    - sofixa 4y ago
      > because it is not very difficult to piece together what the Nazi regime actually did vs what the Soviet occupiers accused them of (and what the US went along with). Could you entertain us with more detail on what you mean here? Germany's atrocities are well documented across Europe ( and North Africa). The Soviets had nothing to do with Drancy or Bergen-Belsen for instance. We know of the Auschwitz horrors through Polish resistance fighters who infiltrated it and managed to escape. There are some things that the Soviets tried to blame on the Germans, and it was certainly believable ( Katyn massacre), but we knew then and know now that it was indeed the Soviets. So what do you mean? What is it, for you, that Germany and Hitler are getting the blame for that was actually the Soviets' work? I don't see what it could possibly be to wash Hitler's image for anyone, unless your starting position is a bit off.
      - ComradePhil 4y ago
        [flagged]
        sofixa 4y ago
SCUSKU 4y ago
Thanks to the author for writing this. As a young man who has come out the other side, I appreciate the courage of the author to put this message out there and expose themselves like this on the open internet. I hope we as a society can continue to be more open about ways to communicate frustration, depression, and sadness. This way it won't be pent up released in an explosive event like a shooting.
- igetspam 4y ago
  Come out the other side of what? Youth or did you find yourself in the world of 4chan and red pill? I'm not trying to troll. I'm genuinely interested in learning more, if you were having thoughts of violence that could have ended tragically.
  - SCUSKU 4y ago
    I have experienced episodes of depression throughout my teenage years and now my mid-20's, but never allowed myself to believe that I was having depression because I thought I wasn't "one of them" I thought I was stronger, somehow better than everyone else. YouTube started recommending red pill videos such as edits of American Psycho, Fight Club, The Joker, basically movies of men expressing their feelings via violence. I recently sought out a psychiatrist as well as a therapist, and have been taking medication. My psychic pain has been alleviated thanks to the medication, which has given me breathing room to work on a lot of toxic mentalities that I carried. Like that the most important thing about my life was my job or how much money I made, caring about status and prestige above all things, thinking of myself as a machine solely to milk for money, among other things like toxic masculinity. While I never had easy access to weapons, nor do I think I would have ever committed a mass shooting, I can easily see how someone with a weaker support system than I had would be driven to retaliate against society because violence is oftentimes seen as a valid means of emotional expression for young men. Anyways, thanks for asking :)
hellofelicia 4y ago
This reads well-meaning, but ultimately misdirected. There is no solid data corroborating the "school shooters are bullied" narrative - in fact, many of them have a long history of being bullies themselves, which then gets twisted from "kids try to avoid the weird kid who does disturbing things" into "poor little baby had no friends". Disabled, queer, poor teens are not shooting up schools. The profile of a school shooter is overwhelmingly white, male and middle/upper class. A shooting is an ultimate tantrum for which the perpetrator is never held accountable.
- smcl 4y ago
  I often wonder how many of these open letters are read by the person they're directed at, presumably very few. I think some of the points they say make sense, and if they hung around on 4chan or 8chan and posted very abbreviated versions of these points, then that might at least reach some potential shooters. But posting on a substack is a bit like screaming into the void even if it was, as you say, well-meaning.
  - hellofelicia 4y ago
    I mean, some of the OP's points seem to vacate a lot of responsibility from where it's due, so in that sense they would definitely speak to their target audience. Unfortunately, the reality is that there are often good reasons why young men who shoot up schools are excluded by their peers. If anything needs to be targeted, it's their ability to self-reflect on that and deal with (often not real but perceived) rejection and confrontation in a healthy way, but I doubt that this will go well.
- drekipus 4y ago
  > Disabled, queer, poor teens are not shooting up schools. Because 1. there's support networks for them, and 2. they don't have the resources themselves. The "white upperclass male" has the resources to do harm, and don't get supported. I keep thinking of Elliot Rodgers, who had a thought that girls owed it to him to date him. I don't think any of that was because he was white, male, or upper class. It was because he was lonely. And without proper socialisation and support he got further and further into the deep end. Males are violent but it can be channelled into positivity. It drives home why such divisive language doesn't help the situation. Obviously the whole "everything supports them every other day" isn't true, because of they were supported, they wouldn't be going through this mess. Or you can believe that it is due to inherent "whiteness", or "maleness", if you would like to continue to divide these kids further.
ComradePhil 4y ago
The writings of Columbine shooters are public information but never reported by the media. http://www.acolumbinesite.com/ http://www.acolumbinesite.com/

32 points by exolymph 4y ago

joshthecynic 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

7eight9ten 4y ago

4pkjai 4y ago
I think it's a bit cynical to assume the author only posted this for clout.
- 7eight9ten 4y ago
- yellowapple 4y ago
  It's a bit cynical to assume politicians only condemn mass shootings for clout, yet here we are.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
I’m amazed this is your reaction. I’m not going to ask you to delete your comment though, it’s obviously sincere too.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Markoff 4y ago

"There Won’t Be Anything Special About Your Shooting" Well yeah, but it would be special, if they came up with other target, something in line with ETA/IRA targets, in which case they could become even heroes for significant part of population. "The “great men” of history — the emperors, the conquerors — aren’t remembered for the death and destruction they wrought." Sure, nobody remembers Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, Mao etc. What is this guy smoking? Oh yeah, right, Hitler is the most remembered for great German highways he built. Nobody remembers those 50M dead Chinese from Mao's made famine.

vaylian 4y ago
Why the negativity? > Sure, nobody remembers Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, Mao etc. What is this guy smoking? I'm pretty sure the author used the word "remembered" in the sense of "recognized" or "admired". Could they have chosen a more precise word? Yes, but to me it is clear what they mean.
- ComradePhil 4y ago
  Hitler is recognized and admired by many. If the change in world order happens when his significance is still fresh, he will surface back as a universally admired figure because it is not very difficult to piece together what the Nazi regime actually did vs what the Soviet occupiers accused them of (and what the US went along with).
  - sofixa 4y ago
    > because it is not very difficult to piece together what the Nazi regime actually did vs what the Soviet occupiers accused them of (and what the US went along with). Could you entertain us with more detail on what you mean here? Germany's atrocities are well documented across Europe ( and North Africa). The Soviets had nothing to do with Drancy or Bergen-Belsen for instance. We know of the Auschwitz horrors through Polish resistance fighters who infiltrated it and managed to escape. There are some things that the Soviets tried to blame on the Germans, and it was certainly believable ( Katyn massacre), but we knew then and know now that it was indeed the Soviets. So what do you mean? What is it, for you, that Germany and Hitler are getting the blame for that was actually the Soviets' work? I don't see what it could possibly be to wash Hitler's image for anyone, unless your starting position is a bit off.
    - ComradePhil 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - sofixa 4y ago

SCUSKU 4y ago

Thanks to the author for writing this. As a young man who has come out the other side, I appreciate the courage of the author to put this message out there and expose themselves like this on the open internet. I hope we as a society can continue to be more open about ways to communicate frustration, depression, and sadness. This way it won't be pent up released in an explosive event like a shooting.

igetspam 4y ago
Come out the other side of what? Youth or did you find yourself in the world of 4chan and red pill? I'm not trying to troll. I'm genuinely interested in learning more, if you were having thoughts of violence that could have ended tragically.
- SCUSKU 4y ago
  I have experienced episodes of depression throughout my teenage years and now my mid-20's, but never allowed myself to believe that I was having depression because I thought I wasn't "one of them" I thought I was stronger, somehow better than everyone else. YouTube started recommending red pill videos such as edits of American Psycho, Fight Club, The Joker, basically movies of men expressing their feelings via violence. I recently sought out a psychiatrist as well as a therapist, and have been taking medication. My psychic pain has been alleviated thanks to the medication, which has given me breathing room to work on a lot of toxic mentalities that I carried. Like that the most important thing about my life was my job or how much money I made, caring about status and prestige above all things, thinking of myself as a machine solely to milk for money, among other things like toxic masculinity. While I never had easy access to weapons, nor do I think I would have ever committed a mass shooting, I can easily see how someone with a weaker support system than I had would be driven to retaliate against society because violence is oftentimes seen as a valid means of emotional expression for young men. Anyways, thanks for asking :)

hellofelicia 4y ago

This reads well-meaning, but ultimately misdirected. There is no solid data corroborating the "school shooters are bullied" narrative - in fact, many of them have a long history of being bullies themselves, which then gets twisted from "kids try to avoid the weird kid who does disturbing things" into "poor little baby had no friends". Disabled, queer, poor teens are not shooting up schools. The profile of a school shooter is overwhelmingly white, male and middle/upper class. A shooting is an ultimate tantrum for which the perpetrator is never held accountable.

smcl 4y ago
I often wonder how many of these open letters are read by the person they're directed at, presumably very few. I think some of the points they say make sense, and if they hung around on 4chan or 8chan and posted very abbreviated versions of these points, then that might at least reach some potential shooters. But posting on a substack is a bit like screaming into the void even if it was, as you say, well-meaning.
- hellofelicia 4y ago
  I mean, some of the OP's points seem to vacate a lot of responsibility from where it's due, so in that sense they would definitely speak to their target audience. Unfortunately, the reality is that there are often good reasons why young men who shoot up schools are excluded by their peers. If anything needs to be targeted, it's their ability to self-reflect on that and deal with (often not real but perceived) rejection and confrontation in a healthy way, but I doubt that this will go well.
drekipus 4y ago
> Disabled, queer, poor teens are not shooting up schools. Because 1. there's support networks for them, and 2. they don't have the resources themselves. The "white upperclass male" has the resources to do harm, and don't get supported. I keep thinking of Elliot Rodgers, who had a thought that girls owed it to him to date him. I don't think any of that was because he was white, male, or upper class. It was because he was lonely. And without proper socialisation and support he got further and further into the deep end. Males are violent but it can be channelled into positivity. It drives home why such divisive language doesn't help the situation. Obviously the whole "everything supports them every other day" isn't true, because of they were supported, they wouldn't be going through this mess. Or you can believe that it is due to inherent "whiteness", or "maleness", if you would like to continue to divide these kids further.

ComradePhil 4y ago

The writings of Columbine shooters are public information but never reported by the media. http://www.acolumbinesite.com/ http://www.acolumbinesite.com/