4 ms·

> This is a particularly absurd example, It _sounds_ like a particularly absurd example, but I do not have an in-depth understanding of the court case, the evi

> This is a particularly absurd example, It _sounds_ like a particularly absurd example, but I do not have an in-depth understanding of the court case, the evidence, the department policies, and the law that lead to this verdict. These days I withhold judgement. > but more subtle versions of this policy show up in many large police departments. For example, the NYPD requires half of a college degree at a rock-bottom GPA[1], and has been agitating for the current mayor (himself an ex-cop) to drop even that requirement[2]. I don't see the similarity. That looks like a minimum, not a "maximum" requirement. I also don't see why a college degree should be required of a police officer at all. They should be able to get training on the job. A college degree (or part of one) requirement inflates degrees and excludes people with disadvantaged backgrounds who are likely to have grown up in and connections with communities most impacted by crime, and it probably doesn't select for important qualities, in my opinion. Although that's another story and I don't really have evidence for that belief.

palmetieri2000 4y ago
I disagree, you highlight a bunch of issues with your university system and then use them to say that police shouldn't need college education. Do you feel the same way about lawyers? Personally I think the people that actually enforce the law should be some of the most educated on the topic and the justice system, much of which is far too in depth to learn while also being a full time police offer. The most obvious solution is for police to have degrees in criminal justice or law (as in some non-US countries). EDIT: reworded for clarity
- pyuser583 4y ago
  In the US, many police do have law degrees. It’s practically required if you want to be an FBI Agent. Honestly I don’t think police need to be well versed in bankruptcy law, contract law, arbitration law, corporate law, tax law, or all the other types of law lawyers learn.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  > Do you feel the same way about lawyers? No. Do you feel the same way about plumbers? > Personally I think the people that actually enforce the law should be some of the most educated on the topic and the justice system, much of which is far too in depth to learn while also being a full time police offer. I disagree. I think they should be well versed in peoples' rights, and the common types of crimes they encounter as part of their job (which is a tiny slice of the justice system -- contract law or securities fraud is not something a beat cop is going to encounter). The law part of it is actually the least important (or easiest) part of the job in my opinion, if you're talking what people usually think of as a "cop". Having empathy, good personal and communication skills, learning how to project authority and confidence, also de-escalation techniques, learning about mental illness and how to deal with sufferers, first aid skills, etc etc. (and that's before we even get to physically restraining people and defending themselves) -- are all more important than a rigorous knowledge of the legal system.
  - palmetieri2000 4y ago
    > Do you feel the same way about plumbers? Obviously plumbers don't enforce the law, manage evidence, write legal documents or have legal authority over others. If you can't see the difference in power dynamics between a police officer or lawyer and a member of the public I cant help you. You're making my point for me, of course police need all of the skills you have listed (except maybe 'how to project authority', whatever that means). All of these skills should be taught to them by other police, while they are learning the job. They also must know the extent to which they are allowed to use their authority, the situations in which they can use lethal force, the appropriate evidentiary and legal processes for taking a case to court. If they learn this on the job then they are risking making process mistakes, or falsely enforcing the law, or breaching rules of evidence, all on real members of the public. They should be educated in all of these things and the limitations of their power BEFORE they have access to that power. Education in Justice is not going be focused on contract law, and I reject the assertion that a beat cop doesn't need to know anything about securities fraud. You don't jump in at detective, most police are going to start working the streets and then move to different roles.
baud147258 4y ago
> They should be able to get training on the job. I'd agree if it completing classes before stepping out on the street with a badge, not learning while doing actual policing
- razakel 4y ago
  That's why you pair them with an experienced mentor instead of just giving them a badge and gun and letting them loose on the streets.

palmetieri2000 4y ago

I disagree, you highlight a bunch of issues with your university system and then use them to say that police shouldn't need college education. Do you feel the same way about lawyers? Personally I think the people that actually enforce the law should be some of the most educated on the topic and the justice system, much of which is far too in depth to learn while also being a full time police offer. The most obvious solution is for police to have degrees in criminal justice or law (as in some non-US countries). EDIT: reworded for clarity

pyuser583 4y ago
In the US, many police do have law degrees. It’s practically required if you want to be an FBI Agent. Honestly I don’t think police need to be well versed in bankruptcy law, contract law, arbitration law, corporate law, tax law, or all the other types of law lawyers learn.
throwawaylinux 4y ago
> Do you feel the same way about lawyers? No. Do you feel the same way about plumbers? > Personally I think the people that actually enforce the law should be some of the most educated on the topic and the justice system, much of which is far too in depth to learn while also being a full time police offer. I disagree. I think they should be well versed in peoples' rights, and the common types of crimes they encounter as part of their job (which is a tiny slice of the justice system -- contract law or securities fraud is not something a beat cop is going to encounter). The law part of it is actually the least important (or easiest) part of the job in my opinion, if you're talking what people usually think of as a "cop". Having empathy, good personal and communication skills, learning how to project authority and confidence, also de-escalation techniques, learning about mental illness and how to deal with sufferers, first aid skills, etc etc. (and that's before we even get to physically restraining people and defending themselves) -- are all more important than a rigorous knowledge of the legal system.
- palmetieri2000 4y ago
  > Do you feel the same way about plumbers? Obviously plumbers don't enforce the law, manage evidence, write legal documents or have legal authority over others. If you can't see the difference in power dynamics between a police officer or lawyer and a member of the public I cant help you. You're making my point for me, of course police need all of the skills you have listed (except maybe 'how to project authority', whatever that means). All of these skills should be taught to them by other police, while they are learning the job. They also must know the extent to which they are allowed to use their authority, the situations in which they can use lethal force, the appropriate evidentiary and legal processes for taking a case to court. If they learn this on the job then they are risking making process mistakes, or falsely enforcing the law, or breaching rules of evidence, all on real members of the public. They should be educated in all of these things and the limitations of their power BEFORE they have access to that power. Education in Justice is not going be focused on contract law, and I reject the assertion that a beat cop doesn't need to know anything about securities fraud. You don't jump in at detective, most police are going to start working the streets and then move to different roles.

baud147258 4y ago

> They should be able to get training on the job. I'd agree if it completing classes before stepping out on the street with a badge, not learning while doing actual policing

razakel 4y ago
That's why you pair them with an experienced mentor instead of just giving them a badge and gun and letting them loose on the streets.