4 ms·

I'm starting to understand that one of my bedrock values is personal, bodily autonomy: adult individuals have the inalienable right to do what they want with th

I'm starting to understand that one of my bedrock values is personal, bodily autonomy: adult individuals have the inalienable right to do what they want with their own bodies - even that which I disapprove - as long as in so doing they respects all rights of others. Suicide, sex, drugs, weird body modifications, prostitution: inalienable. As with free speech, there are undoubtedly edge cases that should be prohibited, but in general I really think society would be better off not wasting resources legislating the morality of people's consensual choices; and rather focusing strictly on practical matters regarding them when and if necessary. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

matheweis 4y ago
I don’t think these things can be compartmentalized to neat black and white boxes. The healthcare system bears a heavy burden as a direct result of people doing whatever they want. Ask an ER doc what they spend their time doing. How about vaccines? Is that in the class of inalienable right to do what they want, or (dis)respecting the rights of others? These things are often interconnected and have hidden costs and/or benefits to the wider society even if it seems to only affect the individual at first glance.
- plugger 4y ago
  > The healthcare system bears a heavy burden as a direct result of people doing whatever they want. Ask an ER doc what they spend their time doing. And the criminal justice system bears an expensive burden by treating these activities as crimes. And I'd wager that cost is higher when compared to healthcare costs
  - rendall 4y ago
    Far, far higher, especially when all indirect and social costs of a punitive approach are accounted. Even well-funded, high-quality, competent preventative health-care is much cheaper, such as counseling, education, nutrition, child care, poverty prevention, even housing. Prison itself could really lean into redemption and reformation over grim revenge and rape. I'm libertarian inclined, and I feel that these costs are essential to maintaining a stable, prosperous society.
- rendall 4y ago
  What I read here sounds like disagreement, but has no actual points of disagreement. Could it be that we actually agree?
hackeraccount 4y ago
Consent is the start not the end of the question. Free speech is probably the right lens to view this through - all speech is not treated equally even if (in theory) none or very little is explicitly prohibited. Some speech is supported, some arouses an immediate condemnation.
taylodl 4y ago
adult individuals have the inalienable right to do what they want with their own bodies I agree 100%. What is freedom if I can't do anything I want with my body? That's the most basic of freedoms. Do I know people who are alcoholics and have had their lives ruined by alcohol? Yes. I also know people who enjoy alcohol responsibly. Do I know people who smoked like a chimney and got lung cancer? Yes. I also know people who only smoke a cigarette or two a couple of times per week when enjoying a drink at a bar and don't have any problems. Do I know people who became heroin addicts and died in a span of three weeks from first using heroin? Yes. I also know people who smoke a joint every so often and are doing just fine. Freedom has a price. Some people will use their freedom to wreck their lives. You just have to accept that, shake your head, and use it as an example to others for how not to use your freedom. At the end of the day though the choice is yours - you're free to wreck your life if you so choose. No government has the power to take that freedom away from you.

matheweis 4y ago

I don’t think these things can be compartmentalized to neat black and white boxes. The healthcare system bears a heavy burden as a direct result of people doing whatever they want. Ask an ER doc what they spend their time doing. How about vaccines? Is that in the class of inalienable right to do what they want, or (dis)respecting the rights of others? These things are often interconnected and have hidden costs and/or benefits to the wider society even if it seems to only affect the individual at first glance.

plugger 4y ago
> The healthcare system bears a heavy burden as a direct result of people doing whatever they want. Ask an ER doc what they spend their time doing. And the criminal justice system bears an expensive burden by treating these activities as crimes. And I'd wager that cost is higher when compared to healthcare costs
- rendall 4y ago
  Far, far higher, especially when all indirect and social costs of a punitive approach are accounted. Even well-funded, high-quality, competent preventative health-care is much cheaper, such as counseling, education, nutrition, child care, poverty prevention, even housing. Prison itself could really lean into redemption and reformation over grim revenge and rape. I'm libertarian inclined, and I feel that these costs are essential to maintaining a stable, prosperous society.
rendall 4y ago
What I read here sounds like disagreement, but has no actual points of disagreement. Could it be that we actually agree?

hackeraccount 4y ago

Consent is the start not the end of the question. Free speech is probably the right lens to view this through - all speech is not treated equally even if (in theory) none or very little is explicitly prohibited. Some speech is supported, some arouses an immediate condemnation.

taylodl 4y ago

adult individuals have the inalienable right to do what they want with their own bodies I agree 100%. What is freedom if I can't do anything I want with my body? That's the most basic of freedoms. Do I know people who are alcoholics and have had their lives ruined by alcohol? Yes. I also know people who enjoy alcohol responsibly. Do I know people who smoked like a chimney and got lung cancer? Yes. I also know people who only smoke a cigarette or two a couple of times per week when enjoying a drink at a bar and don't have any problems. Do I know people who became heroin addicts and died in a span of three weeks from first using heroin? Yes. I also know people who smoke a joint every so often and are doing just fine. Freedom has a price. Some people will use their freedom to wreck their lives. You just have to accept that, shake your head, and use it as an example to others for how not to use your freedom. At the end of the day though the choice is yours - you're free to wreck your life if you so choose. No government has the power to take that freedom away from you.