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All the same things they’re useful for in apps (which are also prone to spam/clickbait). Web push is a prerequisite for moving a ton of apps out of app stores

All the same things they’re useful for in apps (which are also prone to spam/clickbait). Web push is a prerequisite for moving a ton of apps out of app stores and into the platform agnostic thin client model of the web: messaging clients, timers, background tasks, transaction/shipping status updates, trading tools, etc

scarface74 4y ago
You mean making them worse?
- ben174 4y ago
  You mean not installing yet another application and having another icon on my homescreen for every freaking website I visit? And these apps almost have no need to run any native code or do anything a website can't handle in modern day. Yes. I'm all for it. Let's make browsers more capable.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Even simple apps like banking apps, AirBnB, and even Papa Johns are more responsive than their websites
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      That's because they're bad devs, not because webapps are inferior.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        The “No True Scotsman” Defense. Or maybe it’s because either cross platform web apps are never as good as mobile apps or that the entire web development ecosystem is a clusterfuck of dependency hell, security vulnerabilities in dependencies, complexity, and “ooh shiny” new framework of the week?
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    Have you thought about not installing the apps and just using the website? I have yet to see a website where I wanted to install the app to view it, and have no idea what features would make me want to do that.
    - ben174 4y ago
      Have you not enountered sites that app-wall you? Sites with useful content, such as Reddit - not allowing you to view the user-generated content unless you install their app? It sucks - but it exists.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        No, I haven't noticed that. Sometimes websites ask, but I don't even see those "would you like to install our app" popups that often. Reddit has certainly asked me to download the app, but never forced me.
        Garvey 4y ago
        It does this under the guise of protecting you from certain content, like an nsfw post will require you to download the app, although I think you can get round that using the old. prefix rather than www
    - Klonoar 4y ago
      ...which is why they're in favor of web push, which you're arguing against. You just made their point for them.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        Sorry, I must have miscommunication. I said "I have no idea what features would make me want to do that." And I don't. I've never wanted push notifications from any website, I'm happy that those that do are segregated to the app and that the website works fine without them. Unlike, say cookies or tracking or ads, where I have to modify the code of the website to block them. My point was maybe they should try just not installing the apps and not getting push notifications, etc.
- ben174 4y ago
  Reddit, for instance, should not be an app. It is failure on the browser's capabilities that you can't visit a reddit link without being spammed to death about installing their app. If the browser was capable of the things the reddit product team wanted to do, they wouldn't need to bug you to install their silly web wrapper app. The OS would be able to handle permissions gracefully, instead of letting the app have free reign.
  - Jcowell 4y ago
    I disagree, Reddit does well as an app (I’m of the option that HackerNews is too , that’s why in use Octal). It’s just that Reddit has a really bad app.
    - esprehn 4y ago
      What capability/user experience does it gain by being an app?
      - weikju 4y ago
        it gains the ability to bypass ublock origin and other adblockers, for one. Not for benefit of the end users, but definitely Reddit gains from it.
        scarface74 4y ago
        Or you could I don’t know, pay for it and remove ads…
      - frosted-flakes 4y ago
        It loses the ability to open pages in new tabs.
        dijit 4y ago
        You can make a HTML link open in a new tab by adding the target=”_blank” attribute. You should insert this after the link address.
esrauch 4y ago
Although apps also send junk push notifications, it seems like websites are drastically worse in terms of push notifications. The reason is just that I visit many more websites only once and expect no ongoing relationship with them: that means that I am much less likely to want their notifications AND they are much more likely to want me to have notifications AND they have less to lose by being spammy. Apps can assume higher organic revisits and also being too spammy can result in the downside of the me the app. A website I had no plan to revisit has no punishment for attempting not spam.
HWR_14 4y ago
> Web push is a prerequisite for moving a ton of apps out of app stores and into the platform agnostic thin client model of the web Why would I want to turn my powerful computer into a thin client where I don't have my own software?

scarface74 4y ago

You mean making them worse?

ben174 4y ago
You mean not installing yet another application and having another icon on my homescreen for every freaking website I visit? And these apps almost have no need to run any native code or do anything a website can't handle in modern day. Yes. I'm all for it. Let's make browsers more capable.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Even simple apps like banking apps, AirBnB, and even Papa Johns are more responsive than their websites
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    That's because they're bad devs, not because webapps are inferior.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      The “No True Scotsman” Defense. Or maybe it’s because either cross platform web apps are never as good as mobile apps or that the entire web development ecosystem is a clusterfuck of dependency hell, security vulnerabilities in dependencies, complexity, and “ooh shiny” new framework of the week?
- HWR_14 4y ago
  Have you thought about not installing the apps and just using the website? I have yet to see a website where I wanted to install the app to view it, and have no idea what features would make me want to do that.
  - ben174 4y ago
    Have you not enountered sites that app-wall you? Sites with useful content, such as Reddit - not allowing you to view the user-generated content unless you install their app? It sucks - but it exists.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      No, I haven't noticed that. Sometimes websites ask, but I don't even see those "would you like to install our app" popups that often. Reddit has certainly asked me to download the app, but never forced me.
      - Garvey 4y ago
        It does this under the guise of protecting you from certain content, like an nsfw post will require you to download the app, although I think you can get round that using the old. prefix rather than www
  - Klonoar 4y ago
    ...which is why they're in favor of web push, which you're arguing against. You just made their point for them.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      Sorry, I must have miscommunication. I said "I have no idea what features would make me want to do that." And I don't. I've never wanted push notifications from any website, I'm happy that those that do are segregated to the app and that the website works fine without them. Unlike, say cookies or tracking or ads, where I have to modify the code of the website to block them. My point was maybe they should try just not installing the apps and not getting push notifications, etc.
ben174 4y ago
Reddit, for instance, should not be an app. It is failure on the browser's capabilities that you can't visit a reddit link without being spammed to death about installing their app. If the browser was capable of the things the reddit product team wanted to do, they wouldn't need to bug you to install their silly web wrapper app. The OS would be able to handle permissions gracefully, instead of letting the app have free reign.
- Jcowell 4y ago
  I disagree, Reddit does well as an app (I’m of the option that HackerNews is too , that’s why in use Octal). It’s just that Reddit has a really bad app.
  - esprehn 4y ago
    What capability/user experience does it gain by being an app?
    - weikju 4y ago
      it gains the ability to bypass ublock origin and other adblockers, for one. Not for benefit of the end users, but definitely Reddit gains from it.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Or you could I don’t know, pay for it and remove ads…
    - frosted-flakes 4y ago
      It loses the ability to open pages in new tabs.
      - dijit 4y ago
        You can make a HTML link open in a new tab by adding the target=”_blank” attribute. You should insert this after the link address.

esrauch 4y ago

Although apps also send junk push notifications, it seems like websites are drastically worse in terms of push notifications. The reason is just that I visit many more websites only once and expect no ongoing relationship with them: that means that I am much less likely to want their notifications AND they are much more likely to want me to have notifications AND they have less to lose by being spammy. Apps can assume higher organic revisits and also being too spammy can result in the downside of the me the app. A website I had no plan to revisit has no punishment for attempting not spam.

HWR_14 4y ago

> Web push is a prerequisite for moving a ton of apps out of app stores and into the platform agnostic thin client model of the web Why would I want to turn my powerful computer into a thin client where I don't have my own software?