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Poll YC: Mandatory Replies.

6 points by jlopez 18y ago

I think that every vote for downgrade must have a reply. I would like to know your comments!

pius 18y ago
It sounds good in principle but in practice I think it'd add a lot of noise to threads.
- rantfoil 18y ago
  Yeah, it would be needlessly noisy in public form. However, it can be helpful for people to get feedback directly. Would a private reply that only the submitter can see be valuable? It would help the community give direct feedback to the submitter or commenter without adding noise.
  - SwellJoe 18y ago
    Seriously, are you really taking your posts to HN as so important than they need to receive review from peers? It's a forum. It is informal, it is not a vetted peer-reviewed journal. If someone wants to reply, they will, and it should (generally) be public (and if it shouldn't, the responder will look up your email address and send you a message, assuming that's possible)...if they don't, it's dumb to try to force them to (privately or otherwise).
    - jlopez 18y ago
      I was not thinking in karma, actually I don't care about it, at least not now but my point is that hacker news is to share knowledge or ideas and if you are going to say that you don't like a post then you should share with the community your point of view so we can learn from each other. (btw: sorry for repeat this post)
      - SwellJoe 18y ago
        I didn't mention karma in the comment you're replying to. I understand your suggestion, and I disagree with it very strongly, and I said so and explained why.
iuguy 18y ago
No. If people want to downgrade, don't vote up.
arockwell 18y ago
A simpler solution is to upvote comments you think are unfairly downvoted.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
aneesh 18y ago
No. My least favorite part of HN is all the meta-debates about karma, downvotes, "is this HN?", etc. Can we just skip all the meta-debates, and focus on interesting hacker news? So what if you have 50 less karma than you think you should? So what if there are 4 articles that you think aren't hacker news? (Just don't click on or upvote them).
- jlopez 18y ago
  I was not thinking in karma, actually I don't care about it. My point is that hacker news is to share knowledge or ideas and if you are going to say that you don't like a post then you should share with the community your point of view so we can learn from each other.
  - SwellJoe 18y ago
    then you should share with the community your point of view so we can learn from each other This is not the third grade, and our discussions are not chewing gum or a note being passed. If someone has something to add, they will. This is already possible. Everyone can comment on any comment. You are asking to formalize something that already exists, and to do so in a stupidly paternalistic manner. Personally, I don't come to HN to provide feedback on every dumbass post that I think is dumb. (Though I very, very, rarely downvote. I'm far more likely to call something stupid in a comment and explain why...but I don't think anyone should be forced to explain why they think something is stupid. A downvote is a much more concise and efficient way to say it. I just happen to be a blowhard that enjoys the sound of my own voice, and so I comment a lot more than I vote.) And, I agree with the above: Meta-discussion about karma and voting is just annoying. Stop doing it. It's irritating, and this kind of suggestion comes up every couple of weeks or so and gets shouted down because most of us disagree pretty strongly with it...just as this one has been.
- jhancock 18y ago
  I don't even know how to "downvote". My interface only shows up arrows. I agree that simplicity is key assuming you can rely on community decency.
DabAsteroid 18y ago
Feature Requests: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=363 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=363
SwellJoe 18y ago
Hells no. Don't be so bloody sensitive. Your HN karma is not a measure of your worth...accept downvotes and move on.
- jlopez 18y ago
  I was not thinking in karma, actually I don't care about it, at least not now but my point is that hacker news is to share knowledge or ideas and if you are going to say that you don't like a post then you should share with the community your point of view so we can learn from each other. (btw: sorry for repeat this post)
  - SwellJoe 18y ago
    Doesn't matter. Dumb idea is dumb.
SwellJoe 18y ago
Oh, and this kind of post is also against the site guidelines: Resist complaining about being downmodded. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
scott_s 18y ago
Redundant. I only downvote posts that I think are outright flames, or otherwise completely counterproductive to conversation. Downvoting is not a way of saying "I disagree with you," it's a way of saying "You're detracting from real conversation." Explaining downvotes only adds to the noise. I do, however, upvote to agree. If I disagree but I think it's a legitimate comment, I don't do anything.
iigs 18y ago
I think it would be neat if downvotes took a point of karma away from the downvoter as well. That would provide incentive for the downvoting user to comment so that people would have a chance to mod him up to recover it. Yes, yes, I know "don't pay attention to your karma", but it's one of the primary pieces of information about our posts/comments that we're given by reddit/this system. The site would function identically if article, comment, and user karma values were all hidden. I wonder what the impact would be on the dialog.
- DabAsteroid 18y ago
  http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=298768 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=298768 Charge money for voting. For example: every 2 votes costs 1 Karma point. There are lots of other interesting Karma suggestions in the main Requests thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=363 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=363
DabAsteroid 18y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=297260 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=297260 ericwaller 21 days ago | link | parent | flag It'd be interesting if a down vote were actually a special case of reply and required an explanation. . http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=57134 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=57134 aswanson 374 days ago | link | parent | flag You could make down votes more expensive by forcing someone to type a rationale of why
menloparkbum 18y ago
This doesn't work because it would mean every dumb "FIRST!" type comment would result in a chorus of posts saying "I voted you down because you just said 'first'." This is much worse than simply downvoting such posts into oblivion.

6 points by jlopez 18y ago

I think that every vote for downgrade must have a reply. I would like to know your comments!

pius 18y ago

It sounds good in principle but in practice I think it'd add a lot of noise to threads.

rantfoil 18y ago
Yeah, it would be needlessly noisy in public form. However, it can be helpful for people to get feedback directly. Would a private reply that only the submitter can see be valuable? It would help the community give direct feedback to the submitter or commenter without adding noise.
- SwellJoe 18y ago
  Seriously, are you really taking your posts to HN as so important than they need to receive review from peers? It's a forum. It is informal, it is not a vetted peer-reviewed journal. If someone wants to reply, they will, and it should (generally) be public (and if it shouldn't, the responder will look up your email address and send you a message, assuming that's possible)...if they don't, it's dumb to try to force them to (privately or otherwise).
  - jlopez 18y ago
    I was not thinking in karma, actually I don't care about it, at least not now but my point is that hacker news is to share knowledge or ideas and if you are going to say that you don't like a post then you should share with the community your point of view so we can learn from each other. (btw: sorry for repeat this post)
    - SwellJoe 18y ago
      I didn't mention karma in the comment you're replying to. I understand your suggestion, and I disagree with it very strongly, and I said so and explained why.

iuguy 18y ago

No. If people want to downgrade, don't vote up.

arockwell 18y ago

A simpler solution is to upvote comments you think are unfairly downvoted.

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

aneesh 18y ago

No. My least favorite part of HN is all the meta-debates about karma, downvotes, "is this HN?", etc. Can we just skip all the meta-debates, and focus on interesting hacker news? So what if you have 50 less karma than you think you should? So what if there are 4 articles that you think aren't hacker news? (Just don't click on or upvote them).

jlopez 18y ago
I was not thinking in karma, actually I don't care about it. My point is that hacker news is to share knowledge or ideas and if you are going to say that you don't like a post then you should share with the community your point of view so we can learn from each other.
- SwellJoe 18y ago
  then you should share with the community your point of view so we can learn from each other This is not the third grade, and our discussions are not chewing gum or a note being passed. If someone has something to add, they will. This is already possible. Everyone can comment on any comment. You are asking to formalize something that already exists, and to do so in a stupidly paternalistic manner. Personally, I don't come to HN to provide feedback on every dumbass post that I think is dumb. (Though I very, very, rarely downvote. I'm far more likely to call something stupid in a comment and explain why...but I don't think anyone should be forced to explain why they think something is stupid. A downvote is a much more concise and efficient way to say it. I just happen to be a blowhard that enjoys the sound of my own voice, and so I comment a lot more than I vote.) And, I agree with the above: Meta-discussion about karma and voting is just annoying. Stop doing it. It's irritating, and this kind of suggestion comes up every couple of weeks or so and gets shouted down because most of us disagree pretty strongly with it...just as this one has been.
jhancock 18y ago
I don't even know how to "downvote". My interface only shows up arrows. I agree that simplicity is key assuming you can rely on community decency.

DabAsteroid 18y ago

Feature Requests: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=363 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=363

SwellJoe 18y ago

Hells no. Don't be so bloody sensitive. Your HN karma is not a measure of your worth...accept downvotes and move on.

jlopez 18y ago
I was not thinking in karma, actually I don't care about it, at least not now but my point is that hacker news is to share knowledge or ideas and if you are going to say that you don't like a post then you should share with the community your point of view so we can learn from each other. (btw: sorry for repeat this post)
- SwellJoe 18y ago
  Doesn't matter. Dumb idea is dumb.

SwellJoe 18y ago

Oh, and this kind of post is also against the site guidelines: Resist complaining about being downmodded. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

scott_s 18y ago

Redundant. I only downvote posts that I think are outright flames, or otherwise completely counterproductive to conversation. Downvoting is not a way of saying "I disagree with you," it's a way of saying "You're detracting from real conversation." Explaining downvotes only adds to the noise. I do, however, upvote to agree. If I disagree but I think it's a legitimate comment, I don't do anything.

iigs 18y ago

I think it would be neat if downvotes took a point of karma away from the downvoter as well. That would provide incentive for the downvoting user to comment so that people would have a chance to mod him up to recover it. Yes, yes, I know "don't pay attention to your karma", but it's one of the primary pieces of information about our posts/comments that we're given by reddit/this system. The site would function identically if article, comment, and user karma values were all hidden. I wonder what the impact would be on the dialog.

DabAsteroid 18y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=298768 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=298768 Charge money for voting. For example: every 2 votes costs 1 Karma point. There are lots of other interesting Karma suggestions in the main Requests thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=363 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=363

DabAsteroid 18y ago

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=297260 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=297260 ericwaller 21 days ago | link | parent | flag It'd be interesting if a down vote were actually a special case of reply and required an explanation. . http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=57134 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=57134 aswanson 374 days ago | link | parent | flag You could make down votes more expensive by forcing someone to type a rationale of why

menloparkbum 18y ago

This doesn't work because it would mean every dumb "FIRST!" type comment would result in a chorus of posts saying "I voted you down because you just said 'first'." This is much worse than simply downvoting such posts into oblivion.