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Pension fund managers should stick to what they (pretend) to understand: investments. Electric cars have a ton of environmental issues - Lithium mining and rela

Pension fund managers should stick to what they (pretend) to understand: investments. Electric cars have a ton of environmental issues - Lithium mining and related water consumption and CO2 release to name but a few. Toyota should be hailed for sticking to hydrogen instead.

natch 4y ago
Hydrogen is corrosive, dangerous, and inefficient. It is not an energy source. There are much better existing storage mechanisms. It burns with an invisible flame in daylight, further adding to the dangers already posed by leaks, fires, and explosions. Hydrogen cars in California cannot take road trips out of the state because there is no place for them to fill up in many other states. There have been at least two recent major explosion incidents involving hydrogen tanker trucks in California. One of which was kept somewhat under the public’s radar as a truck incident by spinning it as an incident at a hydrogen facility, which is true, but misleading imho. I've seen hydrogen cars at filling stations that were brought there by tow trucks. Hydrogen cars are so expensive the manufacturers have to heavily subsidize them. I'm not sure they even sell them; I think they are all leased. Hydrogen is so difficult to deal with, people who produce it might even have to give it away in some places, depending on location, because nobody wants to deal with it. Toyota has been out of step on this, and they are still faking out customers imho by using the term "electrified" which usually means hybrid, but fools people into thinking they are talking about BEVs.
- charles_kaw 4y ago
  The Japanese government, in step with their private industry, created a self fulfilling prophecy through an internal campaign painting hydrogen as the future. Their insistence on hydrogen makes a lot more sense when you consider that Japanese politicians have been making big promises around the technology in the domestic market. Oops, lol.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > I've seen hydrogen cars at filling stations that were brought there by tow trucks. Here's a Tesla brought to a Tesla charger on a tow truck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue2Gs9hRr8k&t=260s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue2Gs9hRr8k&t=260s So Tesla must be doomed, right?
  - natch 4y ago
    By your logic I guess you think electrical outlets and EV chargers are as rare as hydrogen vehicle refueling stations. So… no.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      So you're saying Tesla has more charging stations than there are hydrogen fuel stations and Teslas still need tow trucks?! Wow, you've convinced me. Tesla must be super doomed.
- missedthecue 4y ago
  Lithium batteries aren't an energy source either. This isn't a comment for or against either system but it's an odd criticism.
  - natch 4y ago
    There’s no need to take it as a criticism although I can see how in certain contexts you might. Here it’s meant just as a flat fact. I suppose the op was even aware of it, but if you don’t spell everything out on HN then commenters who miss the main point will jump in and object. I guess you can’t win either way though.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
paranoidrobot 4y ago
> Pension fund managers should stick to what they (pretend) to understand: investments. Says you. Personally I'd like to see more of this. Perhaps it's less profitable than just going for the highest immediate ROI and who cares about the impact on the wider world. More fair pay & conditions, less exploiting workers. More supporting local communities where they operate, less profit-shifting/tax-avoidance. More caring about environmental impact, less polluting. I think a lower ROI is worth it if we can achieve these things.
- fomine3 4y ago
  I'm fine if private funds do this (though I don't think investors are smart enough to judge everything), but not fine for pension fund. It's not your money and customers have no choice.

natch 4y ago

Hydrogen is corrosive, dangerous, and inefficient. It is not an energy source. There are much better existing storage mechanisms. It burns with an invisible flame in daylight, further adding to the dangers already posed by leaks, fires, and explosions. Hydrogen cars in California cannot take road trips out of the state because there is no place for them to fill up in many other states. There have been at least two recent major explosion incidents involving hydrogen tanker trucks in California. One of which was kept somewhat under the public’s radar as a truck incident by spinning it as an incident at a hydrogen facility, which is true, but misleading imho. I've seen hydrogen cars at filling stations that were brought there by tow trucks. Hydrogen cars are so expensive the manufacturers have to heavily subsidize them. I'm not sure they even sell them; I think they are all leased. Hydrogen is so difficult to deal with, people who produce it might even have to give it away in some places, depending on location, because nobody wants to deal with it. Toyota has been out of step on this, and they are still faking out customers imho by using the term "electrified" which usually means hybrid, but fools people into thinking they are talking about BEVs.

charles_kaw 4y ago
The Japanese government, in step with their private industry, created a self fulfilling prophecy through an internal campaign painting hydrogen as the future. Their insistence on hydrogen makes a lot more sense when you consider that Japanese politicians have been making big promises around the technology in the domestic market. Oops, lol.
clouddrover 4y ago
> I've seen hydrogen cars at filling stations that were brought there by tow trucks. Here's a Tesla brought to a Tesla charger on a tow truck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue2Gs9hRr8k&t=260s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue2Gs9hRr8k&t=260s So Tesla must be doomed, right?
- natch 4y ago
  By your logic I guess you think electrical outlets and EV chargers are as rare as hydrogen vehicle refueling stations. So… no.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    So you're saying Tesla has more charging stations than there are hydrogen fuel stations and Teslas still need tow trucks?! Wow, you've convinced me. Tesla must be super doomed.
missedthecue 4y ago
Lithium batteries aren't an energy source either. This isn't a comment for or against either system but it's an odd criticism.
- natch 4y ago
  There’s no need to take it as a criticism although I can see how in certain contexts you might. Here it’s meant just as a flat fact. I suppose the op was even aware of it, but if you don’t spell everything out on HN then commenters who miss the main point will jump in and object. I guess you can’t win either way though.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

paranoidrobot 4y ago

> Pension fund managers should stick to what they (pretend) to understand: investments. Says you. Personally I'd like to see more of this. Perhaps it's less profitable than just going for the highest immediate ROI and who cares about the impact on the wider world. More fair pay & conditions, less exploiting workers. More supporting local communities where they operate, less profit-shifting/tax-avoidance. More caring about environmental impact, less polluting. I think a lower ROI is worth it if we can achieve these things.

fomine3 4y ago
I'm fine if private funds do this (though I don't think investors are smart enough to judge everything), but not fine for pension fund. It's not your money and customers have no choice.