3 ms·

I've been using ULID for a while now, which analogous to UUID v7 but with a different (better IMHO) string representation. They've been awesome for using as sor

I've been using ULID for a while now, which analogous to UUID v7 but with a different (better IMHO) string representation. They've been awesome for using as sort keys in dynamo for instance, since they're lexicographically sortable as strings. But one thing I'm still wary about is exposing these IDs with millisecond-precision time components to end users, since I've seen multiple discussions here on HN about the potential for timing attacks. How worried should I really be? Do people have useful heuristics on the kinds of data where it's safe/unsafe to expose timing information, or should I just only expose a separate UUID v4 externally across the board just to be safe?

doliveira 4y ago
I came up with a scheme in which the random part of the ULID is a slice of the hash of a UUID, which seems to work fine because I'm generating it all server side, I guess? It works very well for insertion into NoSQL databases, for instance. So I'd also like to know the threat model for these timing attacks.
djbusby 4y ago
ULID has like 80 bits of random per millisecond. I found some calculator online that showed the probability of collision on 80bits was very, very low even across time much longer than millisecond. I think knowing when an ID was created is harmless - and if it isn't there is a design problem that is larger than ID choice. There is another lib called hashid which can be used if masking that ID algo is important.
- lewisl9029 4y ago
  > I think knowing when an ID was created is harmless - and if it isn't there is a design problem that is larger than ID choice. I hope you're right, since I've been cautiously operating under that assumption so far. Cautiously, because of warnings, from people better versed in cryptography than I, in discussions like this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29805433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29805433. I still haven't quite been able to internalize when this should vs shouldn't be something I should be concerned about, hence the comment.

doliveira 4y ago

I came up with a scheme in which the random part of the ULID is a slice of the hash of a UUID, which seems to work fine because I'm generating it all server side, I guess? It works very well for insertion into NoSQL databases, for instance. So I'd also like to know the threat model for these timing attacks.

djbusby 4y ago

ULID has like 80 bits of random per millisecond. I found some calculator online that showed the probability of collision on 80bits was very, very low even across time much longer than millisecond. I think knowing when an ID was created is harmless - and if it isn't there is a design problem that is larger than ID choice. There is another lib called hashid which can be used if masking that ID algo is important.

lewisl9029 4y ago
> I think knowing when an ID was created is harmless - and if it isn't there is a design problem that is larger than ID choice. I hope you're right, since I've been cautiously operating under that assumption so far. Cautiously, because of warnings, from people better versed in cryptography than I, in discussions like this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29805433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29805433. I still haven't quite been able to internalize when this should vs shouldn't be something I should be concerned about, hence the comment.